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GAELIC AS A DYING LANGUAGE?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Jock_Tams_Bairn
    Watch Gaelic television programs and that will show you how dead the language is The defenition of a "Dead language" is that while it is people's first language, it is not evolving along with the times. Gaelic tv programs constantly have to use english words in order to tell people about a "refridgerator", a "television, an "aeroplane" etc. Now if people wanted to resurect it, then they would have to set up a comitee to make new names for new items/inventions instead of borowing english words. or at the very least, they could pronounce it the way it is spelled in english (like the french do with television). that is the only way to resurrect the language

    Is that not "a definition of a dead language" according to Jock_Tams_Bairn? Television is not an English word, it is latin. Television is more of a french word than it is English as French is a latin language, whereas English is germanic. The thing is with English, is that it borrows heavily from latin, far more than French borrows from English!

    As for Gàidhlig, because the Gaels have been denied an education in their native tongue, that will be why you hear them use a lot of "English" words in their vocabulary. However, that doesn't mean there aren't words for such things.

    For television, try "telebhisean". (televeeshen) Say it in a Scottish Gaelic accent and you'll see it's as much a Gaelic word as it is an English! For "aeroplane" try -"itealan" or just "plèana". Do you really think English didn't borrow "aero" for flight? How about Anglo-Scots "ken". D'ye ken whaur that comes fae? Tak a keek at "kennen" in Dutch or German!

    I would have thought with a name like Jock Tamson's Bairns you would realise we, as human beings, are all dependant on one another, and we all borrow from the same pot essentially.

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    • #32
      actually tele is greek for far away.
      tele phone... borrowed from French but phone is greek pheme = voice
      tele vision... borrowed from French with vision from Latin videre see

      re- fridge rator, english with the latin ending ate to do something, and -ator the thing who does, moderator...

      write: scribble, screeb, sgriobh, kritzeln (German)
      know: ken kennen wissen/weis wise ... wisdom weisheit
      long lang

      the list is endless

      's math sin.
      'S toil leam Gàidhlig a bhruidhinn agus a leughadh agus sgrìobhadh oir 'se an cànan feumail agus àlainn a th' innte.

      Comment


      • #33
        I admit my knowladge of the Gaelic isnt the best. I obviously wrongly assumed that since the Gaelic t.v programs used words that are in the english language and not Gaelic, that automatically leads to the idea that either there are no new words for these things or they cant speak the language themselves properly. Yes I know that any language from the Brittish Isles has mostly Latin, Franco or Germanic influences but since the television was created in the UK by a Scotsman and he called it "Television", that makes it (while made up of two other languages words) a Brittish word. The english language is probably the worst one for stealing other peoples words but words like "television" and "telephone" originate from English speaking areas which makes them essentially from the english language

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        • #34
          The problem with gaelic is that it finds it hard to cope with neologisms. It either takes a word straight from english and puts it into gaelic spelling - such as 'telebhisean' or 'coimpuitair' - or concocts purely gaelic phrases which are immediately redundant because of being so unwieldy; physics = nadar-feallsanachd or orchestra which in gaelic could be orcastra or foireann-ciùil.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Jock_Tams_Bairn
            words like "television" and "telephone" originate from English speaking areas which makes them essentially from the english language
            But the problem is that they AREN'T English words. They're loanwords. It's just English speakers have a bee in their bonnet that their language is somehow pure when it's the most bsastardised of the lot. Even the Anglo-Saxon root of it is swamped with French.

            "Republican" certainly isn't a proper Anglo-Saxon word, and Jock and Tam originate from the Mediterranean... Jacobus & Teoma (Aramaic). "Bairn" is Norse, AFAIK.


            (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
            "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

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            • #36
              The thread does seem to have run somewhat out of steam, however reading back through it I found this quite interesting:

              Originally posted by anSiarach
              Id say the status of gaelic could be described as living death - deja death is also a suitable term from Scottish Republican - as people still speak it but no community exists anymore and i say this as someone who lives and was brought up in the last part of the country to speak use it as a community language. My generation is the last to use the language amongst ourselves as children and the end of its use in the playground was stunningly sudden event. I have a younger sister (2 years younger) and brother (4 years) and while i and all my peers still speak gàidhlig to each other socially my siblings and their friends do not.
              Can I ask why you think this sudden change took place, and could I also ask what ages yourself and your sibblings are so we can have some idea of when this was taking place?

              Although Gaelic has often been discussed on these forums, we really don't here much from native speakers of Gaelic on the subject.
              There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by TheScottishEconomist
                Can I ask why you think this sudden change took place, and could I also ask what ages yourself and your sibblings are so we can have some idea of when this was taking place?

                Although Gaelic has often been discussed on these forums, we really don't here much from native speakers of Gaelic on the subject.
                I have no idea why this sudden change took place - It may just be that by chance most of the kids in my age group came from strongly gaelic speaking families (the vast majority of those in the english only class spoke it as their first language as well) while the years which followed had a weaker ability or total lack of it on average. I am 20 and my siblings are 18 and 16.

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                • #38
                  Which part of the country are you from then? Surely not the Uists?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jock_Tams_Bairn
                    I admit my knowladge of the Gaelic isnt the best. I obviously wrongly assumed that since the Gaelic t.v programs used words that are in the english language and not Gaelic, that automatically leads to the idea that either there are no new words for these things or they cant speak the language themselves properly. Yes I know that any language from the Brittish Isles has mostly Latin, Franco or Germanic influences but since the television was created in the UK by a Scotsman and he called it "Television", that makes it (while made up of two other languages words) a Brittish word. The english language is probably the worst one for stealing other peoples words but words like "television" and "telephone" originate from English speaking areas which makes them essentially from the english language
                    literally speaking: no is not.
                    THough I wonder why I am making the effort to post at all. well then ignore me.
                    'S toil leam Gàidhlig a bhruidhinn agus a leughadh agus sgrìobhadh oir 'se an cànan feumail agus àlainn a th' innte.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Steaphan
                      Which part of the country are you from then? Surely not the Uists?
                      West side of Lewis.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by anSiarach
                        West side of Lewis.
                        Aah, Lewis. Was over there a couple months ago. Lots of kids got on the bus after Carlobhaigh, none of them were speaking Gaelic to each other.

                        The Uists, I hear, have slightly higher incidences of Gaelic speaking.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Steaphan
                          Aah, Lewis. Was over there a couple months ago. Lots of kids got on the bus after Carlobhaigh, none of them were speaking Gaelic to each other.
                          I had quite a few kids from there in my gaelic class at school and they were they had the weakest gaelic in the class. That may just be coincidence but i do wonder and i didnt hear a word of gaelic spoken when i was last up there at their cattle show - as opposed to the west side one which had plenty of it.

                          The Uists, I hear, have slightly higher incidences of Gaelic speaking.
                          I wouldnt know as i havent been down there in years - although i would hope so. While immediately the slightly greater isolation of the southern isles might mean greater language retention + fewer incomers i believe Benbecula (though i may be getting places mixed up here) was the most english part of the islands after Stornoway with only just over 50% of people speaking the native language. Weve had a huge influx of the gall in the last year or two although the english culture amongst the youth has obviously been in place for some time independent of this fact which is inevitable without all the primary schools on the island teaching purely through gaelic.

                          Ive been told that Sgalpaidh still has excellent gaelic.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Eleana
                            actually tele is greek for far away.
                            tele phone... borrowed from French but phone is greek pheme = voice
                            tele vision... borrowed from French with vision from Latin videre see

                            re- fridge rator, english with the latin ending ate to do something, and -ator the thing who does, moderator...

                            write: scribble, screeb, sgriobh, kritzeln (German)
                            know: ken kennen wissen/weis wise ... wisdom weisheit
                            long lang

                            the list is endless

                            's math sin.
                            I note your points about tele being of greek origin and vision latin. THanks.

                            My main aim though was to highlight how all languages borrow words. No doubt "tele" came into Greek from another language.

                            Gaelic though has some excellent concoctions for modern-day terms which aren't unwieldy at all. Take "cruinn-eòlas" which I find to be very user-friendly, and not at all unwieldy. As far as I'm aware it's entirely Gaelic in origin. The english equivalent of "geography" is not....

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Steaphan
                              Gaelic though has some excellent concoctions for modern-day terms which aren't unwieldy at all. Take "cruinn-eòlas" which I find to be very user-friendly, and not at all unwieldy. As far as I'm aware it's entirely Gaelic in origin. The english equivalent of "geography" is not....
                              Agreed. Bith-Eòlas is another excellent one for Biology and sounds rather poetic when translated literally - Knowledge of Life The Sciences and Arts often have very fine fully gàidhlig terms in my experience.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Steaphan
                                I note your points about tele being of greek origin and vision latin. THanks.

                                My main aim though was to highlight how all languages borrow words. No doubt "tele" came into Greek from another language.
                                That was mine too and my comment was more directed towards Jock Tams... anyway thanks for quoting me, sometimes it gets frustrating, but I realize I can't contribute much anyway.

                                But I can read.
                                'S toil leam Gàidhlig a bhruidhinn agus a leughadh agus sgrìobhadh oir 'se an cànan feumail agus àlainn a th' innte.

                                Comment

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