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How can I learn Welsh?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Scottish_Republican
    "Cymuned is not anti-immigration...it is for multiculturalism.
    What a hilarious notion! From http://www.cymuned.net/index.php?newlang=english:

    "Cymuned is an anti-colonisation pressure group which works on behalf of Welsh-speaking communities."

    "If you believe in a genuinely bilingual future for our country...please take a couple of minutes to become a member."

    "...keeping our language as a living community language in the Fro Gymraeg will help support and motivate Welsh speakers in other parts of the country."

    The whole purpose of Cymuned, its very raison d'etre is to preserve a Welsh-speaking monoculture, which is hardly multi-culturalism is it?

    Originally posted by Scottish_Republican
    "Well the Welsh people would be made to speak English wouldn't they?
    The people in my street are not made to speak English, so why would your Welsh friends be an exception?

    Comment


    • #32
      Cymuned is there to stop colonisation (not quite the same as immigration), and to preserve their deliberately endangered culture... it's certainly far left of what Blunkett and the Tories say.

      "The people in my street are not made to speak English, so why would your Welsh friends be an exception?"

      Because they're "English" innit?

      It may surprise you, but not only white people speak Welsh. Why is that?


      (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
      "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

      Comment


      • #33
        Hope I'm not committing a faux pas by raising this thread from the dead.

        Hirta refers to the high cost of translations into Welsh as an argument against providing bilingual service, and refers more specifically to the largely-Welsh speaking county of Gwynedd, where I live.

        In Gwynedd, internal council administration is conducted in Welsh. At great expense (I quote), therefore, taxpayers are subsidising the provision of English-language services to the minority. Why did you not mention this in your post? No community in Wales is now less than 6% Welsh speaking, so it is surely right that the extremely patchy level of bilingual services be rolled out across the country - the official trigger point at which this happens in Finland, for example, is 8%.

        Ever tried clicking the 'Cymraeg' button on University/Welsh Assembly/quango/public body websites? This shows immediately how Welsh is being starved of funds - Basque with a similar number of speakers gets 10 times more investment. In fact, higher education Welsh language spending at 6% of the total shows again the extent to which Welsh speaking taxpayers are subsidising the education of their monoglot neighbours' children. One of the largest European cultural events, the National Eisteddfod, nearly went bust this year because the Assembly provides it with much less funding (17%) as a proportion of its costs than is dished out to English language cultural events & groups.

        So Welsh speakers (and it seems anti-Welsh English speakers) were brusque with your mother. Obviously regrettable, but my sister was literally stoned by English speaking children for daring to speak Welsh, I myself have been assaulted in the past by incomers. Old people in my neighbourhood have been jeered at and heckled similarly, as has my sister for speaking Welsh with her toddler in public.

        I constantly hear/hear of semi-racist anti-Welsh comments made by a large proportion of English students resident here, some reported to me by a Welsh learner friend. I have a number of times been told that it is rude to speak Welsh in the presence of non speakers. The level of bile aimed at Welsh people & culture in the English media is shocking, Jeremy Clarkson, A.A.Gill, Polly Toynbee, Glenda Jackson et al...the list is endless.

        This prejudice also translates into active discrimination in that there are chain stores in my town - run by incoming managers - where, out of a work force of several dozen, you will not encounter a single person even with a Welsh accent. All English-language media in Wales, including the BBC, again ensure that Welsh accented presenters are kept to a bare minimum, and I've heard of cases of BBC executives insisting that characters initially drawn out to be Welsh be subsequently changed to another nationality or identity.

        Incomers in some parts of Gwynedd even send their children on a 80 mile daily round trip in order to ensure that they don't have a proper bilingual education.

        Certainly there is an element of animosity amongst some local people, but it is strictly aimed at incomers displaying a supremacist attitude towards local culture. I often get the impression that many of these moneyed chauvinists regard the financially poorer Welsh as some Australians seem to regard the Aborigines, and for us to be assertive about our culture is too much like the natives becoming uppity.

        Let's hear less about the poor downtrodden cultural imperialist. The language statistics for the last 100 years provide adequately proof of who is culturally oppressing/imposing their language on who in Britain.

        Comment


        • #34
          There is a distinction between "people should learn" and "people should be forced to learn".


          (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
          "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

          Comment


          • #35
            I read tis over again and I found that Hirta said that there was a lot of anti-Englishness in thias thread. I have to tell you that I do not hate England, in fact I do love England, especially the south west, but Brighton, and the northwest of England is fantastic. I do not want to be accused for being anti-english, most of my best friends are English, but still my point was that Gàidhlig shiould have the same status as Welsh. And as SR said,[b] There is a distinction between "people should learn" and "people should be forced to learn".

            Anam Ceilteach

            Comment


            • #36
              Slagging off Cymraeg and Gaidhlig (or Lallans) is anti-Welsh and anti-Scottish. Yet the people who do that bang on about anti-Englishness. Hypocrites!

              You can see anti-Welsh prejudice all the time on the television. In fact usually when UK tv programmes get made, they often have the "comedy Celt" (Irish/Welsh/Scottish or failing that a Scouser).

              "Blackadder" and "Men behaving badly", as well as presenters such as Anne Robinson and Jeremy Paxman have free rein to make such racist jokes and comments about the Welsh (and us) that they'd be forbidden to make about other minorities.


              (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
              "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by mred
                Hirta refers to the high cost of translations into Welsh as an argument against providing bilingual service, and refers more specifically to the largely-Welsh speaking county of Gwynedd, where I live.

                In Gwynedd, internal council administration is conducted in Welsh. At great expense (I quote), therefore, taxpayers are subsidising the provision of English-language services to the minority. Why did you not mention this in your post?
                Because I'm referring to subsidising Welsh in Wales as a whole. Are you trying to tell me that county councils (in this case Gwynedd) are entirely self funding? No, of course they're not, so this is an over-simplification anyway. In addition, more people can speak English (whether mono- or bi-lingual) in Gwynedd then Welsh so again this is an over-simplification.

                Originally posted by mred
                No community in Wales is now less than 6% Welsh speaking, so it is surely right that the extremely patchy level of bilingual services be rolled out across the country.
                Evidence for this? I know, for example, that there's a large Somali community in Cardiff - would 6% of them really be Welsh speakers? I find this hard to believe.

                I must again stress the point that I am not against subsidising Welsh (or any other language for that matter) where a substantial number of people speak it. Of course, of what proportion this figure should be is a subjective matter and open to debate (as is the case here) but I don't believe that 8% or 6% is.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by mred
                  Hirta refers to the high cost of translations into Welsh as an argument against providing bilingual service, and refers more specifically to the largely-Welsh speaking county of Gwynedd, where I live.

                  In Gwynedd, internal council administration is conducted in Welsh. At great expense (I quote), therefore, taxpayers are subsidising the provision of English-language services to the minority. Why did you not mention this in your post?
                  Because I'm referring to subsidising Welsh in Wales as a whole. Are you trying to tell me that county councils (in this case Gwynedd) are entirely self funding? No, of course they're not, so this is an over-simplification anyway. In addition, more people can speak English (whether mono- or bi-lingual) in Gwynedd then Welsh so again this is an over-simplification.

                  Originally posted by mred
                  No community in Wales is now less than 6% Welsh speaking, so it is surely right that the extremely patchy level of bilingual services be rolled out across the country.
                  Evidence for this? I know, for example, that there's a large Somali community in Cardiff - would 6% of them really be Welsh speakers? I find this hard to believe.

                  I must again stress the point that I am not against subsidising Welsh (or any other language for that matter) where a substantial number of people speak it. Of course, of what proportion this figure should be is a subjective matter and open to debate (as is the case here) but I don't believe that 8% or 6% is.

                  Originally posted by Scottish_Republican
                  Slagging off Cymraeg and Gaidhlig (or Lallans) is anti-Welsh and anti-Scottish. Yet the people who do that bang on about anti-Englishness. Hypocrites!

                  You can see anti-Welsh prejudice all the time on the television. In fact usually when UK tv programmes get made, they often have the "comedy Celt" (Irish/Welsh/Scottish or failing that a Scouser).

                  "Blackadder" and "Men behaving badly", as well as presenters such as Anne Robinson and Jeremy Paxman have free rein to make such racist jokes and comments about the Welsh (and us) that they'd be forbidden to make about other minorities.
                  I agree - shame on them. Anyone who makes any sort of remark based on someone's race is, quite simply, being racist.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hirta
                    In addition, more people can speak English (whether mono- or bi-lingual) in Gwynedd then Welsh so again this is an over-simplification.
                    "Everybody" (note the quotes) in Scandinavia and the Netherlands speaks English, so why don't they just ditch their languages? Maybe it's because they don't suffer from a colonial cringe about their languages.

                    Taken in total, more Scandinavians + Netherlanders speak English than Dutch, Frisian, Norwegian, Finnish etc taken respectively, so it's "not good value for money". Maybe their priorities aren't right!

                    "I know, for example, that there's a large Somali community in Cardiff - would 6% of them really be Welsh speakers? I find this hard to believe."

                    You'd be surprised. In Ireland a friend of mine teaches in a Jewish school. Although many come from some kind of Ashkenazi background, all the pupils have some kind of ability in Irish. You're severely mistaken if you think only whites speak or learn the various Celtic languages.


                    (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
                    "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

                    Comment

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