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  • Prejudiced Crap in the Paper

    Can you imagine them being allowed to write this reactionary nonsense about any other minority group?

    Sunday Times 26 Sultain 2004
    Allan Brown, restless native

    "Being a sensitive soul, the prince is “very concerned” that
    fewer and fewer people wish to speak a language that makes them sound like drunken owls"



    (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
    "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

  • #2
    OK I have just returned to England after a two week visit to my parents in the North East of Scotland.

    I have been off the forum for about 6 weeks and I have come back to see what is happening - now I have read this post and I an lost - do you have a link that I can follow?

    I am genuinely asking for more information.

    I live in England - but I am Scottish and I can see a lot of prejidice. This is a big thing stretching from religion, race, colour - whatever.

    I have just come back from a holiday in my HOMELAND and I have seen that things are not the same as when I left in 1982 - my world has changed - my Homeland has changed.

    This may seem a bit out of synch - -I have my reasons - please give me a link to follow - to read so that I can see what you are talking about. Best wishes - Rsy
    If ye thocht a Scotsman wis a kilted hielander stanin oan a hillside shoutin

    Heers tae is, Aa faa's like is - Damn fyow an they're aa deid

    Ye hivnea met me

    Comment


    • #3
      Was that aboot Gàidhlig????????????
      If, I'll kick the bloody Prince's ass
      Pog mo thon!
      That's what I'd say!
      Anam Ceilteach

      Comment


      • #4
        You're not allowed to be racist or prejudiced now. Except against the likes of Gaidhlig. It's okay to say Scots are tight, and Irish are idiots, but try saying the Jews are tight or the Africans idiots. You'll get a different reaction, but there should be the same to both.


        (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
        "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Scottish_Republican
          You're not allowed to be racist or prejudiced now. Except against the likes of Gaidhlig. It's okay to say Scots are tight, and Irish are idiots, but try saying the Jews are tight or the Africans idiots. You'll get a different reaction, but there should be the same to both.
          You'll find many English people expressing similar grievences - has political correctness gone too far?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hirta
            Originally posted by Scottish_Republican
            You're not allowed to be racist or prejudiced now. Except against the likes of Gaidhlig. It's okay to say Scots are tight, and Irish are idiots, but try saying the Jews are tight or the Africans idiots. You'll get a different reaction, but there should be the same to both.
            You'll find many English people expressing similar grievences - has political correctness gone too far?
            Yeah, but that’s not racist…….. Apparently it’s just a bit of banter.
            What the H*ll happened to democracy?

            Comment


            • #7
              "You'll find many English people expressing similar grievences - has political correctness gone too far?"

              Hirta, anglophobia in the Celtic countries gets a lot of press attention, but the prejudice going the other way, doesn't.



              (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
              "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Scottish_Republican
                "You'll find many English people expressing similar grievences - has political correctness gone too far?"

                Hirta, anglophobia in the Celtic countries gets a lot of press attention, but the prejudice going the other way, doesn't.

                As much as you might wish for there be some anti-Celt conspiracy of silence south of the border, has is ever occurred to that there might actually be more anti-English resentment in Scotland than the other way round? Have a trawl through the numerous nationalist postings on this and other sites and an awful lot of people, whether you agree with it or not, subscribe to a sort of 'victimhood' whereby Scotland has suffered terribly from the hands of the nasty English (have a watch of Braveheart or Rob Roy to see this sort of crap perpetuated by Hollywood). All of a sudden the link between Scottish nationalism and anti-Englishness doesn't seem quite so tenuous.

                So now we've established that the idea of anti-Englishness in Scotland isn't so far fetched, have a look at the ethnic mix of England. Not many people would argue that Scotland is more ethnically diverse (both in real terms and proportionally) then England - for example, in Leicester where I live the white population is only about 50% of the total. You are talking about racism against people that differ from the English only by accent - surely the dedicated racist would far rather be concerned with this huge non-white population in English cities then Scots that make up a much smaller minority? It just doesn't make sense.

                Have a look at this site: http://ssg.maoism.ru/index.html/ One of its aims is to "To halt and reverse mass English Immigration into Scotland". Please post the anti-Scottish equivalent of this site to add support to your claims.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am a nationalist, but I couldn't really care about the extent of anti-Gaelic/anti-Scottish feelings in England (apart from where it affects opinion here). What really bothers me is anti-Gaelic (and to an extent anti-Scottish) feelings in Scotland. The anti-English resentment in Scotland is very well recognised, and not tolerated. In recent years, its profile has been raised and is now treated in much in the same way as other forms of racism. The anti-Gaelic sentiment is not treated in this way. This is internal to Scotland.

                  The original post referred to an article published in an English based newspaper, but the author (I am pretty sure) is Scottish, as well as most of the editorial team of the section it was published in.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree. It's disheartening to see fellow Scots disparaging their own fellow Scots through their own feelings of inferiority. They should get it sorted.
                    I have to say though, while there is anti-English feeling from Scots living in Scotland, new-comers to our country are often anti-Scottish, and many Scots living in England face anti-Scottish sentiment at one time or another.
                    Of course, that rarely gets a mention in the newspapers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "As much as you might wish for there be some anti-Celt conspiracy of silence south of the border, has is ever occurred to that there might actually be more anti-English resentment in Scotland than the other way round? "

                      Hirta, have you read the English edition of the Daily Mail recently? It's chock full of anti-Scottish stuff. Apparently we're taking over the government in London, get oodles of money etc.

                      Trawl any of the English tabloids and you'll find xenophobia by the bucketload.

                      Who can forget the Daily Telegraph's headline "Wouldn't you rather admit to being a pig than being Irish?" or Men Behaving Badly where the two lads pretend to be Welsh to stop people moving into the next door flat? It's all over the media... We're stereotypes to them.

                      I know people who've been beaten up in England for being Scottish, and I myself have been accused of being an alcoholic and a skinflint for merely being Scottish (quite often the same folk will accuse you of being "anti-English" too.).

                      It's often claimed that the independence movement is anti-English, but in fact, an end to our colonized status would probably lessen anti-English feeling, not increase it.

                      "All of a sudden the link between Scottish nationalism and anti-Englishness doesn't seem quite so tenuous."

                      Did I forget to mention something else? England also has a problem with prejudice with Continentals. The media still behaves as if World War II is going on/just gone by, and the French and Germans are secretly plotting to get rid of the Queen's head off the coins and establish the fourth reich apparently. I think it's fair enough to say that even most non-bigoted English people don't understand that they are Europeans too.

                      "Please post the anti-Scottish equivalent of this site to add support to your claims."

                      When you come up with the Scottish equivalent of the Oldham riots...

                      p.s. Allan Brown may be writing in an English paper, but the man is a self-hating Scot.


                      (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
                      "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        t'is sad. Very sad, a nation losing it's own identity.

                        'S toil leam Gàidhlig a bhruidhinn agus a leughadh agus sgrìobhadh oir 'se an cànan feumail agus àlainn a th' innte.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "Hirta, have you read the English edition of the Daily Mail recently? It's chock full of anti-Scottish stuff. Apparently we're taking over the government in London, get oodles of money etc."

                          Thank god no, it's not something I could ever imagine subjecting myself to. I agree, it's awful - although it'd be interesting if you actually posted some of these stories to back your claims. Remember, we're not talking about the massive over-representation of Scots in Westminster in addition to the existence of a Scottish parliament, or that Scottish mps can (and do) vote on exclusively English affairs. Nor are we talking about having Scottish mps in powerful positions in Westminster - Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Charles Kennedy, John Reid etc. No, we're talking about 'anti-Scottish' racism. Unfortunately reporting the reality of the state of affairs in the British political system can hardly be regarded as such, whether you like it or not.

                          "Trawl any of the English tabloids and you'll find xenophobia by the bucketload."

                          Again, please post some of these stories (which shouldn't be too hard if your claims are accurate). Interestingly enough, I've read outrageously xenophobic stories in the Scottish press - amazingly enough many papers that exist in England also exist in Scotland (although invariably with a 'Scottish' prefix e.g. Scottish Sun, Scottish Mail etc- why is England denied this recognition?) and their stories don't differ that much. Tell you what - you post your stories and I'll post you mine.

                          "Who can forget the Daily Telegraph's headline "Wouldn't you rather admit to being a pig than being Irish?" or Men Behaving Badly where the two lads pretend to be Welsh to stop people moving into the next door flat? It's all over the media... We're stereotypes to them."

                          Watch a film. The bad guy will be English. However, I suspect that most Americans don't actually think that England is a nation of moustache-twiddling villains. Please realise that the media don't represent the thoughts of a country but represent the opinions of (sometimes very small) groups of people.

                          "I know people who've been beaten up in England for being Scottish, and I myself have been accused of being an alcoholic and a skinflint for merely being Scottish (quite often the same folk will accuse you of being "anti-English" too.)."

                          Yes, and I know English people being physically and verbally abused in Scotland on account of their accent or place of birth. We all know nasty unpleasant ignorant people exist on both sides of the border.

                          "It's often claimed that the independence movement is anti-English, but in fact, an end to our colonized status would probably lessen anti-English feeling, not increase it."

                          So you admit that there is anti-English resentment in Scotland that would only abate if Scotland gained independence? I can't believe you'd undermine your whole argument like that! "Colonised" is an interesting word - please explain what you mean by it.

                          "Did I forget to mention something else? England also has a problem with prejudice with Continentals. The media still behaves as if World War II is going on/just gone by, and the French and Germans are secretly plotting to get rid of the Queen's head off the coins and establish the fourth reich (sic) apparently. I think it's fair enough to say that even most non-bigoted English people don't understand that they are Europeans too."

                          Please refer to my point about the media above. Also, pointing out another's defects is hardly justification for your own.

                          "When you come up with the Scottish equivalent of the Oldham riots..."

                          I thought we were talking about sustained racism directed at a distinct ethnic group over a period of time - please don't change the subject. In addition, there is no equivalent in Scotland of the highly diverse ethnic groups situated in close proximity with one another in such economically depressed conditions. If there were, I'm sure there'd be similar confrontations between residents.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Remember, we're not talking about the massive over-representation of Scots in Westminster in addition to the"

                            No, we're talking about anti-Gaidhlig prejudice, and you've hijacked this thread into something about anglophobia.

                            "existence of a Scottish parliament, or that Scottish mps can (and do) vote on exclusively English affairs. Nor are we talking about having Scottish mps in powerful positions in Westminster - Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Charles Kennedy, John Reid etc. No, we're talking about 'anti-Scottish' racism."

                            You're wrong to disentangle the two. The resentment is very much there. They think we get too much money and too much power. They even think Tony Blair is Scottish, despite the fact that he always calls himself English, and supports the England team.

                            They used to say the same about Kinnock "down south", that he was a Welshman, and shouldn't be allowed to win.

                            A few of the terms I've heard used for Scots by English people include "Sheep shagger", "porridge wog", "haggis muncher" & "sweaty" (from "sweaty sock", rhyming slang for "Jock").

                            "Again, please post some of these stories (which shouldn't be too hard if your claims are accurate)."

                            I can't post entire articles on this thread, they'd be too long. But an example of rampant xenophobia which springs to mind was when England played Germany, and Gazza was depicted wearing a "Tommy's" helmet.

                            "amazingly enough many papers that exist in England also exist in Scotland (although invariably with a 'Scottish' prefix e.g. Scottish Sun, Scottish Mail etc- why is England denied this recognition?) and their stories don't differ that much. Tell you what - you post your stories and I'll post you mine."

                            Actually they do differ in some respects. They have Scottish editions, but are English based papers. Unsurprisingly some of the more "fruity" articles about Scots DON'T appear in the Scottish edition.

                            "Please realise that the media don't represent the thoughts of a country but represent the opinions of (sometimes very small) groups of people"

                            The media INFLUENCES the opinions of many people, including children.

                            "We all know nasty unpleasant ignorant people exist on both sides of the border."

                            Then you shouldn't deny the fact that anti-Scottish feeling DOES exist in England. I've just recalled the story of a lady who received anti-Scottish abuse for years in England, including having a haggis thrown through her window, but then moved to Scotland and received anti-English abuse, because she had anglicised her accent. She moved to England as a child, but it would seem that the abuse she received there was worse than the abuse here.

                            "you admit that there is anti-English resentment in Scotland that would only abate if Scotland gained independence?"

                            I said "lessen". Part of the resentment is misguided hostility of certain Scots towards their country's colonial status, but some of it is merely dislike of the other. If Scotland ceased to be an internal colony, then the former would die out within a generation or two, but the latter might not. A lot of Scots would also lose the "chip on the shoulder" that so many English claim we have, but don't know where it comes from.

                            "pointing out another's defects is hardly justification for your own."

                            Then why the comments about anglophobia? The thread's about an idiot who writes "prejudiced crap" about some Scots' language, and you've tried to invert it. You've done a good job... you've actually written more on that subject than the original one.

                            "please don't change the subject."

                            You already have done. Why do you think it's in the LANGUAGE forum?

                            This was the subject ->

                            "Being a sensitive soul, the prince is “very concerned” that
                            fewer and fewer people wish to speak a language that makes them sound like drunken owls"


                            (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
                            "In this country I don’t think it is enough realized—I myself had no idea of it until a few years ago—that Scotland has a case against England."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hirta
                              Have a look at this site: http://ssg.maoism.ru/index.html/ One of its aims is to "To halt and reverse mass English Immigration into Scotland". Please post the anti-Scottish equivalent of this site to add support to your claims.
                              Anyone with any knowledge of the nationalist cause in Scotland knows that the site you mention is run by an MI5 tout, Adam Busby, who tries to entice feeble-minded dupes to cause trouble and then grasses them to the security services. Have a wee Google for the Cherie Blair aromatherapy scenario, that was one of his, and another silly wee laddie is serving hard time for getting involved. No-one with an ounce of nous takes this rubbish seriously.

                              As for sites which are vehemently anti-scots, they're not too hard to find:

                              http://web.ukonline.co.uk/edf/main.html

                              http://crossofstgeorge.net/

                              and have a look at their forums (fora?) - whatever. All countries have their lunatic fringe.
                              GIRFUY!

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