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Trying to gain some insight from native Scots

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  • Trying to gain some insight from native Scots

    Well I happened upon this message board by default but it could'nt have been at a more appropriate time. I'm an American college student and I'm writing a paper on William Wallace and how he could have possibly facilitated Scotland's national identity. It would be a great opportunity to speak with some Scottish people so if anyone has comments on how Wallace is perceived in Scotland I'd appreciate it.

  • #2
    Wallace is perceived as a national hero by almost all Scots but they tend to have an idealised image of him as a man motivated by patriotic fervour leading a willing army of followers against English tyranny.In fact he claimed to be fighting primarily to re-establish the rightful King,John Balliol to the Scots throne which placed him at odds with Robert the Bruce and many other Scottish nobles.That his followers may not have always been so willing to fight is shown by the fact that he ordered a gallows to be erected in every Scottish town just to remind people where their true loyalties lay.He was also motivated by a personal grievance against the English who had murdered his wife.He was brutal and ruthless and the very man that the country needed when threatened by Edward I and he laid the foundations for Scotland's independence which was finally achieved by Robert the Bruce.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by one_american
      Well I happened upon this message board by default but it could'nt have been at a more appropriate time. I'm an American college student and I'm writing a paper on William Wallace and how he could have possibly facilitated Scotland's national identity. It would be a great opportunity to speak with some Scottish people so if anyone has comments on how Wallace is perceived in Scotland I'd appreciate it.

      Note the order of the following: "ANDREW MORAY and Willam Walace, leaders of the army of Scotland...".

      Letters from Moray and Wallace were sent to the Hanseatic League across the North Sea shortly after the "Braveheart" Battle of Stirling Bridge in 1297. Moray, the senior commander, died of wounds. Wallace failed to win his next battle at Falkirk. Draw your own inferences.

      www.members.aol.com/Windhover/index3.html

      Lowland Teutons have for centuries conspired to airbrush out Andrew Moray`s heroic northern role in Scotand`s story. Note that most of the Moray/Wallace footsoldiers were Celts i.e. they spoke a Celtic language called Gaelic, not English or a dialect of English. (The Scottish War of Independence by Evan MacLeod Barron, 1914 & 1936).

      Check out also this rather lazy website

      www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~grsmith

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      • #4
        Scottish National Identify

        Funnily enough I came across this website researching the issue of How do Scots perceive themselves. Personally I don't think William Wallace has any direct influence on the perception of the scottish identity (as per my research). But if you want the answer to my question, which may answer yours, please let me know.

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        • #5
          I don't know if you're still looking at this but I'm also looking at Scots' impressions of themselves. I know a few who aren't as "zealous" as some who post here and could share what I have.

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          • #6
            Scottish Identity

            Thanks for your reply, I include a wee brief synopsis for you and if you want the full doc, let me know and I can send it to your email - was an interesting subject matter and I found out lots about scottish historic iconography.

            Cheers!

            Its only by looking to the Highlands can we reach some understanding that communities there still embody a society that still understands something about belonging. In historical terms these are a people for whom the soil was not property but part of their identity (McCrone, D. 2001).

            Scotland is an elemental place, a place perceived as a force of nature, and Scottish identity is an elemental force that emerges from that place. it stems from being a community of place which differs from being a community of interest, i.e. one group of individuals with a common cause. Historically our the shattering of our diverse tribal interests moulded us into a single nation.

            Social identities are diverse and complex
            h Scots identity appears to be defined by country of birth, descent and residence
            h national pride (political independence)
            h community spirit
            h sense of scottish identity/distinctiveness
            h Scotland seems to embody an integrated cultural, social and political perception

            h Scottish identity is a very personal matter with competing issues
            h Identities are about using the resources of history and culture in the process of becoming and then being
            h Studies have consistently shown comparatively that Scots have a higher sense of identity than Wales, England, Quebec and even Catalonia (McCrone, D. 2001)
            h Our sense of Scottishness increased in 1997 with the Referendum and ensuing parliamentary election (McCrone, D. 2001)

            O Caledonia! Stern and wild,
            Meet nurse for a poetic child!
            Land of brown heath and shaggy wood,
            Land of the mountain and the flood,
            Land of my sires, what mortal hand
            Can e'er untie the filial band,
            That knits me to thy rugged strand!

            From The Lay of the Last Minstrel by Sir Walter Scott

            References

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/arts/w...s/tartan_myths
            http://www.scottish-history-genealog...o.uk/index.htm
            McCrone, D. (2001) Understanding Scotland 2nd edition Routledge

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            • #7
              thanks for the help, and the references!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by one_american
                Well I happened upon this message board by default but it could'nt have been at a more appropriate time. I'm an American college student and I'm writing a paper on William Wallace and how he could have possibly facilitated Scotland's national identity. It would be a great opportunity to speak with some Scottish people so if anyone has comments on how Wallace is perceived in Scotland I'd appreciate it.


                If William Wallace facilitated a Scottish identity, it was an Anglo-Saxon speaking identity.

                Check out this suppressed website:
                http://www.rfs.scotshome.com/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Raingeanach
                  Originally posted by one_american
                  Well I happened upon this message board by default but it could'nt have been at a more appropriate time. I'm an American college student and I'm writing a paper on William Wallace and how he could have possibly facilitated Scotland's national identity. It would be a great opportunity to speak with some Scottish people so if anyone has comments on how Wallace is perceived in Scotland I'd appreciate it.
                  If William Wallace facilitated a Scottish identity, it was an Anglo-Saxon speaking identity.
                  Check out this suppressed website:
                  http://www.rfs.scotshome.com/


                  Sorry! Anglo-Saxon should have read Anglo-Norman or even Anglo-Flemish.

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                  • #10
                    "If William Wallace facilitated a Scottish identity, it was an Anglo-Saxon speaking identity."

                    Not really... since his successor Robert the Bruce was a Gaidhlig speaker, and in fact used the common language to try and garner Irish support

                    "Check out this suppressed website:"

                    Suppressed how? Suppressed history but not a suppressed website...


                    (Two can play at George Orwell quotes)
                    "In this country I dont think it is enough realizedI myself had no idea of it until a few years agothat Scotland has a case against England."

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Raingeanach
                      [i]Check out this suppressed website:
                      http://www.rfs.scotshome.com/
                      I'm not sure how it was suppressed - but it is an interesting paper.

                      There were approximately 100,000 Scottish gaelic speakers in Nova Scotia at the beginning of the twentieth century. Not too many left - but there are some dedicated people working very hard on it.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by one_american
                        Well I happened upon this message board by default but it could'nt have been at a more appropriate time. I'm an American college student and I'm writing a paper on William Wallace and how he could have possibly facilitated Scotland's national identity. It would be a great opportunity to speak with some Scottish people so if anyone has comments on how Wallace is perceived in Scotland I'd appreciate it.

                        The hitherto suppressed Scottish history on this website will blow your hat off! Check out Dr. Colin Kidd's B.P. Prize Lecture entitled Race and the Scottish Nation 1750-1900.

                        http://www.ma.hw.ac.uk/RSE/events/re...zelectures.pdf

                        Apparently the Lowlanders of Scotland were more genuinely "Olde English" than the English themselves, who,from the Norman Conquest onwards had become a melting pot of various immigrant groups. And, the Saxons of Lowland Scotland fought their Saxon brethren in the Scottish War of Independence.

                        Oh dear!

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                        • #13
                          Angles!!! Angles!!!

                          As has been pointed out on this board afore noo the Saxons never even made it to North England in any great number never mind South Scotland.

                          I do detect a certain cloaked suggestion of illegitmate Scottishness whenever the teutonic population of Scotland is discussed by the fake Gaels on this site.

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                          • #14
                            Trying to gain some insight from naitve Scots

                            Originally posted by alex_ayr
                            Angles!!! Angles!!!
                            As has been pointed out on this board afore noo the Saxons never even made it to North England in any great number never mind South Scotland.
                            I do detect a certain cloaked suggestion of illegitmate Scottishness whenever the teutonic population of Scotland is discussed by the fake Gaels on this site.
                            "Noo" is a pre-Norman Conquest Anglo-Saxon word! Check it out.
                            Argue your prejudiced assertion with Dr. Colin Kidd of Glasgow University. Did you really understand his prize lecture? I suspect not.
                            Note that his lecture is not the first listed on the website.

                            Notwithstanding,the Angles of Northumbria did make it to northern England and southern Scotland. Their tongue was called Inglis or Inglische, not Scots. The Scots of Argyll spoke Scots or Scotis. i.e.Gaidhlig. Check it out.

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                            • #15
                              And of course if we conclude that the fact that the language and culture of lowland Scots was heavily influenced by foreign invaders,makes them somehow less Scottish we must also conclude that the Scandinavian influences exerted on Gaelic culture and language makes the peoples of the highlands and islands less Scottish.Therefore according to that line of reasoning none of us,Gaels or lowlanders are truly Scottish.It's an impossible argument to defend and one that no one could reasonably make having examined the historical evidence.Gaelic culture has developed as a result of foreign influences just as lowland Scottish culture has.

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