England Fans & Scotland Fans????

[McBeaty]

Anyone here remember the 70s? I do, and I remember that we Scot's football fans had just as bad a rep. as the English 'fans' enjoy now.

But we beat that! And now, while English 'fans' are generally dipised throughout Europe, Scots are welcomed with open arms and only seem to add to the carnaval atmosphere of any tournament.

But why is this? CAn anyone remember what the police/football association did in Scotland to change us so drastically? And why can't the English authorities do the same?

...From the point of view of a Scotland fan I know a little of it is to do with the fact that we LIKE having a better rep. than the English...It's one thing we can beat them on consistantly (I just love it when you are abroad and some foreigner - when they discover you are Scottish - tells you how well behaved the Scots fans are "Not like ze nasty Eeengleeesh"!)...



But seriously, what makes a Scots fan so different from the English fan?

(Disclaimer: Before I am flamed I would just like to say that I fully understand that the scenes of violence we see on TV are NOT indicative of ALL English fans. I come from a rugby background and so know full well that the English can be ever bit as well behaved and good humoured as we Scots. But what I would like to know is why they suffer from this sizable minority who seem to have a need to make themselves the 'scum of Europe').

Interesting question. I too remember the days when Scottish fans were as despised (with good reason) as English fans are now. I was never a great fan of football and I've spent a great deal of time out of the country so I don't know what brought about the great turnaround in fans' behaviour.

Alcohol must play a significant part. I recall that the SFA banned alcohol in all the stadia and trains, coaches, etc. and anyone the worse for wear was ejected from the grounds. I don't know how it is today, but I know from personal experience that you could still buy beer inside an English football stadium long after the ban was in place in Scotland.

I think the bad behaviour of certain English "fans" and consequent bans from European football acted as a great spur to Scottish fans to differentiate themselves and to be unequivocally "not English". Since Scottish fans started picking up kudos for their good spirits, the positive reinforcement has ensured that the behaviour will continue. Even if every English "fan" were to become an angel tomorrow, I don't think the Scots would turn into hooligans to differentiate themselves. I think they like being so well received.

As for the English hooligans, I suppose it could have something to do with trying to be best at something. They want to be feared and reviled because that makes them the best thugs in Europe.

Xenophobia probably comes into it as well. Fans at domestic games are pretty well behaved, and I can't believe that it's entirely due to policing methods as some would have us believe, but the Englishman abroad seems to become an entirely more nasty creature. They have to be better than Johnny Foreigner and one way to prove their superiority is to kick the crap out of everybody else.

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The man o' independent mind,
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

[michaelmarley]

I think this changes to the reputation of the Scots fans, came about when the SFA said, if you want to watch Scotland adbroad, you have to come with us, and we will issue you with your tickets, this was through the Travel Club.

Maybe, English FA should issue the same idea, okay it probably wont curb it completely but it might help.

Obviously, it is a minority of the so called fans, and scotland still has them to, but something has to be done, because as one of my dutch mates said in Eindhoven it was good natured, but Charleoi was just really scary.

[homesickscot]

I just had a thought and wondered if anyone knew the answer.

English fans travel all over the world and
though outnumbered in many countries and at many venues, they still manage to act like total morons and cause havoc. Yet when England plays Scotland at Hampden, only a few miles to the North, you do not see any of the same moronic behaviour. Why is this?

I was at the last Scotland - England game at Hampden, the reason there was such a small amount of trouble (around the ground) was mainly due to the Strathclyde police who have to deal with large football crowds everyweek & they don't stand for any sort of trouble! English fans were bused into the ground & bused back to the trains stations straight after the game.

I met lots of english fans during the last world cup & I felt so sorry for them, they were decent fans who were persecuted because of a minority of idiots. I do hope the good fans get the chance to turn round their reputation.

Cheers Al

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Imagine theres no heaven it's easy if you try, no hell below us above us only sky.

[dougie_l]

I thought the English FA had a travel club. The fans who are in the travel club(s) are genuine football fans. How many of those causing trouble in Belgium and in dozens of previous incidents were even interested in watching the football?
I can't recall any specific thing which made us Scots change our behaviour when we ventured abroad following the team although I can't remember much bad behaviour once we started qualifying for the final stages of major tournaments.The demise of the annual game vs England certainly played a part as did the alcohol ban at domestic fixtures. Maybe because the results were so poor we decided it was better to have fun and be friends with the locals and opposing supporters instead.
I feel sorry for the decent England fans as well. They don't deserve to be treated so badly because of the morons.

Someone asked if beer is still sold inside the stadium at English matches? This might not be terribly helpful, but I was at Arsenal v Rangers (Nigel Winterburn's testimonial) at Highbury and I think i remember that beer was being sold inside the stadium... this was a couple of years ago though.