Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?

[Mr Peter Dow]

Your Scotland, Your Referendum website

The most interesting part of the Queen's First Minister's referendum consultation launch was what question and ballot paper does Salmond & the rest of them propose?

Here's their proposed ballot paper.



YES.

I would vote "YES" to that.

Also, it seems like a very fair question.

I like the question because it is simple, to the point and republicans and royalists alike can vote for an independent Scotland without republicans looking like they are voting for a kingdom or royalists looking like they are voting for a republic.

So this ballot paper in its simplicity helps to gain the widest possible support and a mandate for an independent Scotland and it doesn't bind the Scots into a particular constitution, kingdom or republic.

So, OK, Salmond got the wording of the question on the ballot paper right.

The layout of the ballot paper is maybe not the best because the words "YES & NO" on the left-hand side are too far away from the voting boxes on the right-hand side. Possibly the words and the boxes should be centred more. I think the word "YES" should be closer to the voting box for "YES" than it is to the word "NO".


Ballot paper revised layout

I don't agree with some critics of the question who claim that there is any big need to say that Scotland should withdraw from the United Kingdom. Yes we Scots should not be in the United Kingdom but voting to a question that says "withdraw from the United Kingdom" would unfortunately look like we'd be conceding that we were "in" the United Kingdom by choice in the first place when I'm fairly sure the Scots were not at all in agreement with the union of the parliaments in 1707.

As for Salmond's consultation document. Well, at first glance, there is a lot of his usual royalist treachery against the Scots wherein he is trying to lump us Scots with the Queen and the Windsor dynasty.

It might be worth quoting some of the worst bits and replying to them later but I am firmly of the view that not only should we Scots not have to wait until August 2014 to get our independence and ban the Queen to establish a Scottish republic but that the Queen should be banned now and Salmond dismissed as First Minister and sent back to Holyrood to apologise for selling us out to that Queen.

So, the question and ballot paper could have been worse but just because it could have been worse that is no reason for not expressing republican displeasure at the presentation and consultation document which is severely rigged in favour of Queen Elizabeth.

[jebus197]

I'll let the Scots who want her have the Queen, if that's the price we have to pay to sooth their nerves. She is little more than a toothless figurehead anyway. But if things go as I hope they will go, I will shout with my every breath until I die to make sure that that's all she is, and that she has no effective powers in Scotland whatsoever. Perhaps in time the Scots can be persuaded that we don't need her at all. But one step at a time ...

[TurboLine]

Originally Posted by jebus197

I'll let the Scots who want her have the Queen, if that's the price we have to pay to sooth their nerves. She is little more than a toothless figurehead anyway. But if things go as I hope they will go, I will shout with my every breath until I die to make sure that that's all she is, and that she has no effective powers in Scotland whatsoever. Perhaps in time the Scots can be persuaded that we don't need her at all. But one step at a time ...

Like a lot of other Commonwealth countries.

[Adeste Fideles]

The words of the 1973 Referendum were:

"Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Union".

So, if it was OK then it should be OK now. the words should be:

"Do you think Scotland should stay in the the United Kingdom"....

Using words like "independent" sounds like we do not live in an independent and democratic country already. We do, the UK is an independent and democratic country. Why is Salmond so ashamed of the United Kingdom that he cannot put this name on the referendum? the Quebec referendum CLEARLY uses the word CANADA in its referendum...


Interestingly the only places to vote against the EU in 1973 where Shetland and Western Isles.

[morayloon]

Originally Posted by Adeste Fideles

The words of the 1973 Referendum were:
"Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Union".

And the words of the 1997 Scottish referendum was "I agree that there should be a Scottish Parliamen" concise and clear.

So, if it was OK then it should be OK now. the words should be:
"Do you think Scotland should stay in the the United Kingdom"....

There is nothing wrong with a similar question to that of 1997 for the 2014 poll. That it is biased is all in the Unionists minds.

Why is Salmond so ashamed of the United Kingdom that he cannot put this name on the referendum?

The UK is an artificial state, one partly constructed through the bribery of many in the Scottish Estates. What Salmond & the SNP want is a return to the pre 1707 situation.

the Quebec referendum CLEARLY uses the word CANADA in its referendum...

And if the SNP had come up with as long and convoluted a question as the Quebec one it would be slagged off for that. The Unionists are running scared and don't want an Independence referendum at all because they fear the outcome.

Interestingly the only places to vote against the EU in 1973 where Shetland and Western Isles.

And the significance is?

[tig]

we dont live in an independent and democratic country mate....well the people of Scotland dont.

in·de·pend·ent   [in-di-pen-duhnt]
adjective
1.
not influenced or controlled by others in matters of opinion, conduct, etc.; thinking or acting for oneself: an independent thinker.
2.
not subject to another's authority or jurisdiction; autonomous; free: an independent businessman.

you cannot say this about the Scottish people.

Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy,

we dont...and never have.....only 20% of Scottish people voted for the present UK government (13% tory/7%lib) so what right do they have in making our decisions for us?.....none

[Adeste Fideles]

I'm not running scared (as you put it). I think the country that the SNP want's independence from should be on the question... As per the Canada question.

Ancient countries are artificial constructs of rich people. Modern countries are there for the benefit of all the citizens.

the UK came together as a result of an extremely ancient dream of ORDINARY PEOPLE for Island wide unity - King Arthur. Henry 7th (he named his eldest son Arthur, and built a "round table" in Winchester). Henry 7th (part Welsh part English) - to realize this dream, married his daughter to the Stuarts (about 1450).... King Arthur has been a dream of a united Britain for as long as this Island has existed.

King Arthur's land of Britain came into existence more or less at the same time as Carbot set sail for Newfoundland - also a venture of Henry 7th.

the UK existence is a result of a shared dream. Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh from Wikipedia:

"
These forts are likely to have been centres of power of the Votadini, who were the subject of the poem Y Gododdin which is thought to have been written about 600 AD in their hillfort on Edinburgh castle crag. The poem includes a simile comparing a warrior to an 'Arthur' who some have thought to refer to King Arthur which (if not a later addition) may be one of the earliest references to Arthur, and hints at a possibility that his fame might have led to one of the hillforts — and, subsequently, the hill — being named after him.
"

I'm a believer in Britain.
God Save The Queen.