Go Back   Scotland Discussion Forum > Culture > Religion and Philosophy

Notices


Islam and terrorism

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.00 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 25th February 2002, 14:47
Hirta Hirta is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 604
It is interesting to note, particularly after the destruction of the World Trade Centre, that many people have been keen to put across the idea that Islam is a truly peaceful religion. Why is it then that there seems to be a truly prolific number of Islamic terrorist organisations? Why do we see in many Islamic countries despotic military regimes? Why does this not happen in christianity despite having related origins?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 25th February 2002, 16:00
ANDY-J ANDY-J is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 820
Perhaps it is partly because historically the peoples of the middle east have been victims of imperial oppression and this has left a legacy of bitterness which has lasted until the present day.The Ottoman empire oppressed and exploited the various races in the region and were then succeeded by the British empire which cynically exploited Arabs etc. to achieve narrow political ends.It was the British who encouraged Zionism while at the same time encouraging the aspirations of Arab nationalists and thus laid the foundations for today's problems in the region.Possibly Islam is a genuinly peaceful religion but it has been hijacked and corrupted by extremists who wish to use it as a vehicle for their own political ends and they deliberately encourage frustrated young Muslims to become fanatics in the misguided belief that they are performing God's work and will receive a reward in heaven.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 25th February 2002, 16:44
J-J J-J is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281
Where do people get the idea that Islam is intolerant,and a religion of fear,terror and hate?:

From the Koran,the perfect word of Allah,his last revelation and instruction for living to mankind for all time,that's where -

59/21. Had we revealed this Qu'raan upon a mountain,surely you
would have seen it humble itself and crumble out of the fear of Allah.

2/6. As to those who reject Faith it is the same to them whether
thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and
on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur)
8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and
the Last) Day" but they do not (really) believe
9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe but they
only deceive themselves and realize (it) not!
10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their
disease and grievous is the penalty they (incur) because they are
false (to themselves)

2/216. Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is
possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that
ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth and ye
know not

2/174. Those who conceal Allah's revelations in the Book and
purchase for them miserable profit they swallow into themselves
naught but fire; Allah will not address them on the Day of
Resurrection nor purify them; grievous will be their penalty
175. They are the ones who buy error in place of guidance and
torment in place of forgiveness. Ah! what boldness (they show)
for the Fire!


3/106. On the day when some faces will be (lit up with) white and
some faces will be (in the gloom of) black; to those whose faces
will be black (will be said): "Did ye reject faith after
accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting faith

3/151. Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers
for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent
no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home
of the wrong- doers!

3/178. Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is
good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in
their iniquity: but they will have a shameful punishment


3/144. O ye who believe! take not for friends unbelievers rather
than believers: do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against
yourselves?

3/150. Those who deny Allah and his Apostles and (those who) wish
to separate Allah from His Apostles saying: "We believe in some
but reject others" and (those who) wish to take a course midway
151. They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and We have
prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment

5/14. From those too who call themselves Christians We did take a
Covenant but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent
them: so We estranged them with enmity and hatred between the one
and the other to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show
them what it is they have done

5/17. In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ
the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against
Allah if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary his
mother and all everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah
belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that
is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power
over all things."

5/51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for
your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors
to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for
friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust

5/61. When they come to thee they say: "We believe": but in fact
they enter with a mind against Faith and they go out with the
same: but Allah knoweth fully all that they hide

64. The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied
up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay both
His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His
bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee
from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion
and blasphemy. Amongst them We have placed enmity and hatred till
the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war Allah
doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on
earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief

5/72. They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary."
But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship Allah my Lord and
your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah Allah will forbid
him the garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the
wrong-doers be no one to help.
73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a
Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not
from their word (of blasphemy) verily a grievous penalty will
befall the blasphemers among them


6/29. And they (sometimes) say: "There is nothing except our life
on this earth and never shall we be raised up again."
30. If thou couldst but see when they are confronted with their
Lord! He will say: "Is not this the truth?" They will say: "Yea
by our Lord!" He will say: "Taste ye then the penalty because ye
rejected faith."


8/12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I
am with you: give firmness to the believers: I will instil terror
into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks
and smite all their finger-tips off them

9/38. O ye who believe! what is the matter with you then when ye
are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah ye cling heavily to
the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter?
But little is the comfort of this life as compared with the
hereafter
39. Unless ye go forth He will punish you with a grievous penalty
and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the
least. For Allah hath power over all things

9/61. Among them are men who molest the Prophet and say "he is
(all) ear." Say "he listens to what is best for you; he believes
in Allah has faith in the believers and is a Mercy to those of
you who believe": but those who molest the apostle will have a
grievous penalty

10/4. To Him will be your return of all of you. The promise of Allah
is true and sure. It is He Who beginneth the process of Creation
and repeateth it that He may reward with justice those who
believe and work righteousness but those who reject Him will have
nothing but draughts of boiling fluids and Penalty grievous:
because they did reject Him

10/68. They say "Allah hath begotten a son!" Glory be to Him! He is
self-sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth!
No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about Allah what ye know not?
69. Say: "Those who invent a lie against Allah will never
prosper."
70. A little enjoyment in this world! and then to Us will be
their return. Then shall We make them taste the severest Penalty
for their blasphemies

11/118. If thy Lord had so willed He could have made mankind one
People: but they will not cease to dispute
119. Except those on whom He hath bestowed His Mercy: and for
this did He create them: and the Word of thy Lord shall be
fulfilled: "I will fill Hell with jinns and men all together."

See the problem now?These are only a few verses,but they are representative;there are many many more like them.Allah forbids patchouli-scented interpretations of his words quite specifically.He is talking to you in plain language that is easy to understand.You are to take him literally.So,what is a Muslim to do?In my view,the existence of so much Islamic terrorism cannot be blamed on errant muslims who don't understand their faith properly - in my view they understand their faith only too well.No it is the Korans author, Mumammed who got us into this mess,the blame lies squarely on his shoulders.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 27th February 2002, 00:09
J-J J-J is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281
Islam's tolerant side

Of course,there are some peaceful moments in the Koran too,where Allah appears to show tolerance towards other religions.It is upon these verses that the claims to Islams tolerance are based.These are the verses that are closest to the hearts of most peaceful,decent,life-loving muslims.But there aren't very many of them,compared with the verses which promote intolerance and they are also negated by the fact that the intolerant verses come later in the history of Muhammed's 'revelation'.
When Muhammed started his 'mission',he was based in Mecca and had few followers.He had no choice but to preach tolerance.Nevertheless,most of the people of Mecca were wise to him,and thought he was a madman,and used to laugh at him and humiliate him.He fled Mecca in shame,and swore revenge on the people of that city.When he rose to power in Medina,he had a powerful army;the peace-loving verses were superseded by violent and intolerant urgings to join the war afainst the infidels.The people of Mecca were crushed and their freedom of religion wiped out.The Kaba,which before had been a shrine to the many pagan idols of the people of the region,was taken over,the idols smashed and Islam declared as the only acceptable religion.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27th February 2002, 00:29
kseny kseny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 70
Exclamation I'm full of indignation!!!

J-J,
you look very much like those who pick phrases from Koran, assamble them the way they like to teach illeterate, ignorant young people(who become suicide bombers). Rest assured Bible can be used (and was used in the Medievel times) the same way. You're not illiterate, you can afford beign even well-read. I hope, no ill feeling.
Islam is the youngest of the world's religions. From the very beginning it was mixed with politics, today as never before. Besides it's the most vast and fast spreading relegion, and not only due to the demografical situation in the Poorest states, many people from so called civilised countries become Muslims!
HIRTA says it is agressive. Yes, but what would you excpect from the poor who are being ignored!? I think, Fanatism is sinonimous to Strength, power of any church. Christianity is decaying, cos it doesn't demand any sacrifice, even in the Pagan sense, if you like.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27th February 2002, 01:28
J-J J-J is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,281
Hi there kseny.There's no ill-feeling at all,don't worry.I'm not a hater of people although I can't help but hate a hateful ideology.Firstly,I bear no ill-will towards Muslims.Some of my friends,both real and virtual,are muslims,although they are of the moderate or secular kind of course.It is one of my deepest beliefs that we are all united by a humanity than runs way deeper than the cultures that lying prophets of the Biblical and Koranic traditions have got away with slapping on us,if you get my drift.
I assure you kseny,I read the Koran from cover to cover,with all the verses in the right order,with nothing being taken out of context.And I did not see a religion of peace,I saw a religion of intolerance and hate and above all,fear.I've tried(crisis of liberal conscience),but I am not capable of the Orwellian feat of doublethink it would take for me to believe otherwise in the light of the new information I gained.Before I read this book I had assumed,like everyone else,that Islam as a religion was essentially a neutral factor in terrorism - after all there are Christian extremists who kill doctors in America,stockpile guns,indulge in paranoid conspiracy theories and even blow up buildings(Timothy McVeigh)-if they can do that with Christianity,then they can do that with any religion.However,Islam is different,for the reasons I have given.
BTW I agree with you on this:the old testament is just as bad as the Koran,possibly even worse.You can read about my thoughts on the Bible in the "Bible-Why not true?" thread in this forum.But Christianity and Judaism have been largely de-clawed;few really take the old testament in particular very seriously these days.Islam has not been subjected to the open critical scrutiny that other faiths have,due to the proscriptive taboos that surround Islam,and our desire in the west to not offend anyone elses religious opinion.I'd rather kill a bad ideology and risk hurting(temporarily)the feelings of the devout than sacrifice a single human being to preserve it.Others disagree - they would rather sacrifice whole generations of Muslims to Islamic oppression than allow Islamic tenets to face rational scrutiny.To me that is not a very humanitarian attitude, properly considered.It protects some bad old ideas over the lives of real flesh and blood people.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 27th February 2002, 16:00
Hirta Hirta is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 604
Re: I'm full of indignation!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by kseny
Rest assured Bible can be used (and was used in the Medievel times) the same way.

...Christianity is decaying, cos it doesn't demand any sacrifice, even in the Pagan sense, if you like.
Yes, it was used as such in medievel times by the catholic church, usually as a justification for political means. It was a major reason for the birth of protestantism, those people who could see that the church was abusing christ's message of love and goodwill by using violence. I am sure that Islam has never been reformed for these reasons yet there is constant abuse of what is meant to be a 'peaceful religion'. Also the Europe of 600 years ago was a very different place, survival of the fittest often being the rule of the day. Wars and violenece were often an everyday part of life. I would argue that this is no longer the case in modern day Europe.

Christianity maybe 'decaying' as you put it (decline might be a better word) because it is the major religion of the Western world, which is becoming more secular for a variety of reasons (mass consumerisation, knowledge of science, freedom from superstition, the right not to believe in the religion etc, it could form a whole new thread!). I would disagree with you on the idea of a lack of sacrifice being the major reason for christian church decline.

Are there any muslims out there who could add their views?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC4 © 2006, Crawlability, Inc.