Casting Pearls

[AutumnReel]

Mammie,

I am not judging you...and Theja isn't either. WE are ALL headed to hell because of our sin. That is God's judgement...not ours. He is good, perfect, he cannot look upon ONE thing we do that goes against his will. Therefore since we all have done something...we are all condemned.

A Christian would not keep from you the knowledge that you can be adopted into God's family.

But you know this. It is up to God now. If you should truly seek and want answers I would be happy to give them to you.

[Mamie]

Autumnreel - I don't feel judged by you. You appear to profess your faith and attempt to honestly explain you viewpoint. I find Theja however quite judgemental by comparison.

But I have sought my answers through many years of experience and study and feel I have found them. Thank you for your offer tho. I have Christian friends who have answered my questions over the years.

[ANDY-J]

Originally posted by AutumnReel

Andy-J,

Would you mind pointing out these contradictions that you speak of?

Yeah, sure, we all do good things sometimes, but we have also all done things that are wrong. And it is these failings that separate us from God. He is infinately good, he cannot look upon us at all if we have ever sinned. And we have.

Hell was originally created for Satan and his angels. In the future it will contain those who join Satan in rejecting God. If you reject God's provision for the forgiveness of your sins then you will join the Devil who rejected God from the beginning.

Are you implying that it is unjust for God to send people to hell? If so, then you accuse God of injustice. Sin is wrong and it must be punished. What would you have God do to those who oppose Him and do evil? Do you want Him to ignore that which is wrong? Do you want Him to turn His head and not be holy and righteous?

Autumnreel,
In Eph 2.8:9,we are told 'for by grace are ye saved through faith-not of works'.However in James 2.24,we are told 'ye see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone'.In 1 Peter 2.13 we are told 'submit yourself to every ordinance of man',yet in Acts 5.29 we are told 'we ought to obey God rather than men'.There are many such contradictions throughout the bible.Also there are doubts as to the authorship of many biblical texts in particular the Pentateuch.If holy scripture is indeed divinely inspired then how can it contain contradictions and inconsistencies.I am not accusing God of injustice-I am accusing many christians of doing God an injustice by portraying him as a vengeful tyrant.Hell is not a place which has been created by God.It is a state of being experienced by those who cling to illusions such as materialism or meaningless religious dogma thereby denying themselves a chance to attain spiritual growth and a true knowledge of God.Karma will in the fullness of time lead all of us to true spiritual enlightenment and inner peace but it cannot do so unless we seek the path of truth.If you look at orthodox christianity objectively you may eventually,like many other christians come to realise the immorality and meaningless of much of orthodox christian dogma.God created us as free thinking spiritual beings.We all have an infinite capacity for spiritual growth but this can never be realised if we insist on immersing ourselves in meaningless religious dogma which only serves to encourage prejudice and intolerance.

[AutumnReel]

Andy-J,
There is a difference between justification and sanctification.

In Eph 2.8:9,we are told 'for by grace are ye saved through faith-not of works'.

You are saved by your faith and not your works.

James 2.24,we are told 'ye see then that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone'.

Here James is talking about justification...a completely different thing, and for this there must be works. These works our not ours, but the work of the Holy Spirit through us.

God put governments and kings in power. That is why 1Peter tells us to follow their command. However, if that government would have us follow something contrary to the will of God, the God who put them in power to begin with, then who should we follow? Mere men? That is where Acts 5.9 comes in.

You can still believe that the Bible is full of contradictions, but it is not meant to be taken apart. It is the complete word of God...it should be taken as a whole.

Andy-J,
Christianity does not make me prejudice or intolerant. How could I be intolerant or prejudice of the very thing that I was and would become if I did not have Jesus' blood covering my sins and His Holy Spirit guiding me?


The Pentateuch was written centuries ago in a different language, in a different culture, and a different land. The critics are claiming that "they are able to decide exactly what a writer could or could not say, and on this basis to determine what part of the document belongs or does not belong to him."(1) In other words, the critics are basing their argument on their own ability to read a document that is 3000 years old, divide it up into word usage groups, and assert hidden divisions, and separate authors. And not only this, but they are claiming they can do it on a consistent basis. This is hardly an exact science and is open to wide range of error depending upon the presuppositions and purposes of the critic.

Here are some points you might find interesting about the Bible.
The Bible is redundant in its facts and information. The copyist errors present no problems doctrinally.
Compared to other ancient documents, the New Testament, for example, has far more textual evidence in its favor than any other ancient writing. Please consider the chart below.

Author /When Written /Earliest Copy/ Time Span/ No. of Copies
Homer (Iliad) 900 BC 400 BC 500 years 643
Ceasar (The Gallic Wars) 100 - 44 BC 900 AD 1,000 years 10
Plato (Tetralogies) 427 - 347 BC 900 AD 1,200 years 7
Aristotle 384 - 322 BC 1,100 AD 1,400 years 49
Herodotus (History) 480 - 425 BC 900 AD 1,300 years 8
Euripedes 480 - 406 BC 1,100 AD 1,500 years 9
New Testament 50 - 90 A.D. 130 AD
30 years 24,000
This chart was adapted from charts in Evidence that Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell, 1979, pages 42 and 43.


If the Bible cannot be trusted as being reliable because it has only a small percentage of copyist errors, then neither can the above documents be trusted that have far less textual support.
Therefore, we can see that the Bible is an ancient document that has withstood thousands of years of transmission with remarkable accuracy and clarity. We can trust it to be what it says it is: the word of God.


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[ANDY-J]

Autumnreel,
The bible is riddled with such contradictions as those which I have mentioned and I have never yet seen an oerthodox christian provide a satisfactory answer.Instead they employ the most spurious reasoning and sophistry to try and twist the facts.The bible contains many things which are incompatible with the findings of modern science and geology and it is simply not credible to argue that it can be the literal word of God.Orthodox christianity contains many doctrines which are intellectualy unsound and immoral which is why increasing numbers of christians are rejecting it and turning to other faiths.

[Offensivschock]

Originally posted by ANDY-J
Autumnreel,
The bible is riddled with such contradictions as those which I have mentioned and I have never yet seen an oerthodox christian provide a satisfactory answer.Instead they employ the most spurious reasoning and sophistry to try and twist the facts.The bible contains many things which are incompatible with the findings of modern science and geology and it is simply not credible to argue that it can be the literal word of God.Orthodox christianity contains many doctrines which are intellectualy unsound and immoral which is why increasing numbers of christians are rejecting it and turning to other faiths.

Had you actually given more examples of said contradictions, or cited exactly where the Bible disagrees with science, I may have been inclined to believe that this is actually your opinion...even though you've decided to all but ignore Autumnreel's rebut, despite her more than valid points. Since you have failed to produce such effects, however, I am more inclined to believe that you've adopted this way of thinking simply because it suits your purposes, and not having done any research to further back up "your" point of view, grafted it into your beliefs system because it "sounded good."

Produce some undeniable aspects of the Bible v. Science, and then I'll see what I can do. Until then, I'll discount "your" opinion.

[ANDY-J]

Offensivschock,
See what you can do to explain the following.According to christian scripture the earth is around 6000 years old.According to geology the earth is several billion years old.According to scripture there was a universal flood which covered the entire landmass of the earth.Archaeology however reveals that there was certainly an inundation of sea-water in the regions of Black sea and the fertile crescent following the last ice age but this was only of a temporary duration.This event is attested to by various ancient texts such as the epic of Gilgamesh.Archaeology reveals that during the Bronze age the walls of Jericho did indeed collapse-on several occasions.Purely however as a result of natural causes such as earthquakes-not as a result of any trumpet blowing by the Israelites.The bible tells us that all humankind has descended from two human beings-and that the racial diversity which exists in the world has occured in a period of around 6000 years.Also there are countless species of animal which have existed on earth and become extinct-dinosaurs are but one example and the bible cannot account for this.There are a myriad of inconsistencies and contradictions within the bible.Take for example the very obvious disparities between John's gospel and the others,or the obvious doubt as to the mosaic authorship of the pentateuch.I look forward to hearing your views on these matters.