Casting Pearls

[ANDY-J]

Theja,
Do you think the christian fundamentalist argument of divine judgement and eternal damnation is morally acceptable?I believe in reincarnation and that the purpose of life is to grow and develop spiritually.I see little merit in a religion which promises eternal punishment for an individual simply on the strength of their beliefs.

[Theja]

M-M, let me rephrase it: his leadership prevented catholicism from becoming the dominant faith in the nation.


Andy, so you mean to come back after you die?

[J-J]

Hi Theja - re Christianity and Islam -
Well let me say first that IMO christianity has been 'de-clawed' and is no longer the threat to world peace that Islam is.Another difference is that Jesus's teachings on pacifism etc were ignored by the Church who used scripture in exactly the same way the prophets of the old testament did-to further their material ambitions in this world.Whereas Islam at its fundamentalist worst is merely following Muhammeds teachings to the letter.
The middle-eastern tradition of prophethood is one where a smart individual could hoodwink his neighbours into doing that persons will and furthering their material ambitions.Jesus entered this tradition as a reformer.He tried to roll back the power of the prophets by concentrating on the hereafter.He suggested a separation of church and state 'Render unto Caesar what is Caesars,and unto God what is Gods'.And he abhorred some of the draconian punishments for the most human of crimes according to religious law of the time.He was a charlatan of course -I'm sure he knew he wasn't really a virgin birth etc but he seems to have been in it for good reasons,IMO.Pity so much of his message was ignored by the Church though-much bloodshed in history could have been avoided if they had followed his teachings.Muhammed on the other hand rejected the reformed attitudes of Jesus and reverted back to old-testament style prophethood and all that entails.The bit about being 'the last prophet' was a clever innovation on his part though - he made sure no one could screw with his 'religion' they way he did with others.

[ANDY-J]

Originally posted by Theja


M-M, let me rephrase it: his leadership prevented catholicism from becoming the dominant faith in the nation.


Andy, so you mean to come back after you die?

Theja,
I believe that the human soul is eternal and having created Karma in this life I will be obliged to incarnate in a future life.I believe that all humans are trapped within the cycle of birth,death and rebirth until such times as they attain an enlightened state of consciousness-nirvana,which allows them to achieve a spiritual union with God.

[J-J]

Andy - if I can just but in here on Buddhism.I agree with much that you say,but I have some differences.Is being trapped in the cycle of birth and death and rebirth really such a bad thing?Isn't it only the existence of pain in our lives that makes us feel that we want out?But why not just fix our world up in such a way that there is no more pain?It's virtually certain that this can eventually,or maybe sooner,who knows? be accomplished scientifically.

I feel at a deep level that true Nirvana would be the same as nothingness.Consciousness is a process of disclosure,if theres nothing left to be disclosed...?

[Theja]

Hi JJ, your theory of Jesus being a charlatan is very interesting. He has been called or alleged worse than that. Either you dismiss the Bible as just another collection of tales, or have very biased and shallow understanding of it, your portrayal of the prophets were pitiful. Either you are unaware, or chose not to believe the utterings of the prophets that were precisely fulfilled.

Andy, can I call you a modern Hindu? I wish I could believe like you. But I could not, for the simple fact that if there is a creator, He must have his own standards and rules. I cannot drink poison and say I don't believe it'll kill me. I cannot drive against a one-way street and expect the traffic police to look kindly on me.

So if this creator has shown me the way, I'll have no excuse if I disregard it. After all I may have the privilege of independent thinking on this earth (the creator doesn't expect us to be robots), but I'm still in His world. Its either His way, or the thousands of ways you wish to believe it. This is where we part. I chose to believe His way, for Jesus has proven beyond any human capability that He was what He claimed to be by predicting His death and resurrection and fulfilling them.


Theja

[ANDY-J]

J.J.
The Bhuddist view is that the reason for our pain in this life is our unwillingness to accept our oneness with the universal consciousness.If a spirit chooses to seek the illusory pleasure of living on the material plane then it may do so for eternity if it desires.However materialism is ultimately an illusion which we ourselves create and to find true spiritual fulfillment and inner peace it is necessary to transcend material desires and achieve spiritual growth.I don't see nirvana as being nothingness.This is where I have some difficulty with accepting the Bhuddist viewpoint which denies the existence of a permanent soul or ego.I believe that each soul retains it's individuality even having attained an advanced state of enlightenment.Free will is central to our existence and if we choose to retain our individual identity then we may do so.I believe that we are involved in a journey towards God like consciousness and this is something which will take eons.I believe that our existence on earth is only one short chapter in the never ending process of learning and spiritual growth.