A challenge to christianity.

[ANDY-J]

[quote]Originally posted by annamac
[b]Andy-j dear, my only reply is the acceptance of a wayward premises can only yield a wayward conclusion. You have chosen sand on which to build your personal, intellectual empire, while forgetting sacred scripture is high tide. There is still time to seek for yourself higher ground on which to rebuild, for even the most sturdy building supplies can not survive when a tsunami confronts beach- front philosophy. It is clear that you have submitted to liberal theologians who feel compelled to undo established history, and so much so they are willing to dismiss historically good evidences. Instead they embrace tabloid historisity, they are a laughingstock. These paper historians paint a very confused portrait of church AND secular history, and paint with a broad, sweeping brush, and in such a crude way that attracts many "sophmores" inclined to novelty. Like a moth to the flame, like a lamb to the slaughter, you Andy-j, have bought the farm.

Annamac.



Firstly this is patronising(dear),and makes unwarranted presumptions about what I believe in and why.I have challenged the very foundations of what you believe in and this accounts for the rather sharp nature of your reply.There are questions in life that I would like answered and christianity simply doesn't provide satisfactory answers.I don't necessarily place great emphasis on what any liberal theologian states and equally I don't have any time for arguments which are based on superstition rather than reason and common sense.I have an unshakeable belief in the existence of God and I accept that the new testament contains many doctrines which are basically sound.The underlying message of christianity is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you yet instead of adhering to this simple concept many christians tend to become embroiled in meaningless religious dogma.Adherence to any faith is not a pre-requisite for attaining a closer relationship with God.An atheist who loves and respects his fellow human beings will be greater in God's eyes than a christian who does no more than pray and attend church once a week.

[mcil]

This is all very interesting,but has anyone the inclination to go back to the beginning? Theological differences, I would suggest, are not what occupies the minds of most people. The main question is surely that although lip service is paid to "belief in God", it has absolutely no impact on the lives of the vast majority. I think that is because they do not really believe any of it, so how could you convince them of God's existence, and what difference that should make to their lives

[ANDY-J]

Originally posted by mcil
This is all very interesting,but has anyone the inclination to go back to the beginning? Theological differences, I would suggest, are not what occupies the minds of most people. The main question is surely that although lip service is paid to "belief in God", it has absolutely no impact on the lives of the vast majority. I think that is because they do not really believe any of it, so how could you convince them of God's existence, and what difference that should make to their lives

There are no concrete proofs of God's existence although I would argue that given the natural order and beauty which exists within the universe it is reasonable to assume that that there is an intelligent and benign creator.I don't believe in divine will rather I believe that each person has free choice to act as they wish and is responsible for the consequences of each action.I view life as a continual process of spiritual growth and development and I often feel that religion is a hindrance to this process.My beliefs have had a tangible affect on my outlook on life as I have developed a less materialistic attitude and whereas occasionally in the past I wouldn't have hesitated to use violence if provoked I would now never consider it as an option.Religion has played no part in this radical change of outlook.I feel I have simply developed a far more enlightened attitude to spiritual matters as a result of the often harsh experiences which I have undergone in my life.Religion can be a positive thing only if it encourages an individual to treat others with respect and basic humanity.The edifice of often obscure dogma which has been constructed around christianity is however often meaningless and occasionally harmful.If a person is constrained to act in a certain manner for fear of divine retribution then his ability to act as a free thinking individual is compromised.This concept of divine retribution is fundamental to christian belief and thus I believe that christianity can often hinder the spiritual development of an individual by encouraging feelings of guilt where none should exist.

[annamac]

You must have been exposed to many unbalanced "Professing" Christians in your day Andy-j, because true biblical Christianity is beyond all reproach. If you ever tasted the love of God through true Christianity (not the boot camp you are describing) you would gladly walk away from everything to possess such grace, love, hope - the guarentee of eternal life. Such a promise and assurance of heaven is not found in religion, but in the Son of God alone. . . dispite the political incorrectness of such a claim, tis true.

[ANDY-J]

Annamac.
I would like nothing better than to believe in christianity but having been on the recieving end of life's harsh and often brutal realities I have to question the existence of a personal God.I have witnessed first hand the inhumanity with which 'christians' treat each other and I could never contemplate a return to following such a faith.

[mcil]

Thank-you for your reply, Andy. I'm interested in how you come to the conclusion that "it is reasonable to assume that that there is an intelligent and benign creator". Are you saying that you go along with the Christian view that there is a god which created everything and which alone continues to maintain the existence of its creation?

[annamac]

Andy-j. Sorry to hear that the "PROFESSING CHRISTIANS" in your past have left you with an overwhelming temptation to harshly judge ALL Christians. Such sweeping criticism seems to be trendy in this mean-spirited world, and I would be very offended by such stereotypical profiling, but sadly, I'm used to it, and even come to expect it.

Most of the Christians I know would give you the coat off their back in a blizzard. A good amount of Christains help people, feed the poor, visit the sick, and pray for people. . . people like you Andy. But Christians only make the news when they act crimminally or assinine. At times you seem inclined to level-headed reasoning, which is why I am so puzzled why you have allowed the actions of an evil minority of prentenders to deceive you into squanderinng the promise and guarentee of eternal life? It is like a man, let's call him Ted, who avoids all doctor's when he is very ill, because the seven doctors in his hometown were child abusers. Ted fallaciously reasons:

"Dr. Kent, Dr. Williams, Dr. Perry, Dr. . . all took a Hypocatic Oath promising to insure wellness and preserve life, and do all this philanthropic stuff, but they are hypocrites. They have violated the spirit of their oath in a most aggregious and dispicable manner, hence, I vow never to see a doctor again!"

Nobel? Ted needlessly avoids treatment and dies because he was trippin on delusion and emotion. Thinking he can enact some small degree of retribution on the medical community who did so much harm to those innocent children, he boycotts the intervention of an organization chock full of jerks. But Ted's irrational conclusion and action will provide him no comfort when his prostate cancer, that was once curable, rips through his body, and tortures him to death. Ted was determined. Ted had evidence. Ted felt good. Ted fulfilled his vow. Ted was screaming when his heart stopped - he was dead wrong!

Please don't fool yourself into thinking that God is going to let you point to another's evil as an acceptable reason why YOU refused to follow the Him. He offers YOU salvation as free gift of grace through faith, apart from the burdens of self reformation (Ephesians 2:2-8, Titus 3:5), and this gift is refused because you, like Ted, have problems with alleged Christians (doctors) in your past who acted evil, so staying close to the doctor (Jesus) is not an option. This defence is and always will be unacceptable before God. Jesus is the Great Physician, sin is the cancer, and death is eternal seperation from God. Please read Romans chapters 3-5 again Andy-j, with a new approach, and i will be praying, and let God speak to you about grace and mercy, and the incredible sacrifice Christ offers through real life changing faith.