ORIGINAL SIN !!!!CAN ANY ONE ANSWER ME

[TheMinister]

Kazanova3, thought we lost you there for a moment. Welcome back! You may be interestind in reading my post in Open Board, Morocco, where I am unpacking the relationship between logic and faith. I am interested in your response.

[kazanova3]

DEAR THE MINISTER THANKS ALOT AND I ALLREADY POSTED MY ANSWER ON YOUR LOGIC AT MOROCCO.COM IN THE OPEN BOARD THANKS

AND BEST REGARDS.....KAZ...24...

[naebo_s]

"Christ cannot be God and not God at the same time", you also say one should stand on the shoulders of Giants.

In your first statement you contradict the giants who first discussed the deity of Christ. Irenaeus, Clement, Origen, Eusebius etc. Their debate was on how Christ was God and not God at the same time i.e. logos sarx, logos anthropos theology. The guy Arius you mentioned discussed it different terms saying that by his nature Christ is not God but by grace he is.

If you say Christ cannot be God and not God at the same time and yet is God then you seem to be of the persuasion of Arius.

Arius came to his views, as part of the christian search for God, through a philisophical understanding that Christ couldn't be man and God at the same time in his nature but being a thoughroughly Biblical theologian he saw Christ as God by grace. He did this in a religious climate in Alexandria that was beseiged by sects such as the manichees: arius was a man who strived for Orthodoxy found it(which is why he was so popular), but the theological carpet was pulled from under his feet. Arius became a visctim of politics.

[naebo_s]

Quoting and counter quoting the qu'ran and Bible will not get a discussion anywhere. To have a chance of developing our views a more objective position must be taken where one is willing to critisise ones own religion and ask questions. If either Kasanova or the minister was right then I'm sure intelligent people would have spotted this and the argument would not be there.

On the subject of believe and let believe: this is necessary. How can a muslim man from a muslim culture drop his belief in Allah? he must lose his identiy to do so. As with the Christian.

God, I don't speak of Allah or Jehova or Yahweh, but the deity we all speak of we belive to be perfect in mercy, love and justice. If these are some of the difining characteristics of God then we should examine what each of these things mean.

Perfect in love: he love his creation wholeheartedly and does not wish them to suffer. Yet He created a world where he knew man would suffer and life would mould him into the kind of creature that would inflict suffering and a visious circle would ensue.

Perfect Mercy.
" the quality of mercy is not stained
it falleth as the gentle rain from heaven
upon the place beneathe.
It is twice blessed
blessed is him that gives and him that takes
It becomes the throned monarch better than his crown"

Perfect Justice: a bit trickier. It depends on the philosophy of justice: is justice retribution, punishment or reforming? If God is to be just he accepts that he created a situation where man does not have the power to be right Holy and just. A world where a mans' deepest beliefs are moulded by society and his childhood. He created it.

How does this relate to the discussion. God must except that the way that any man can perrcieve him is relational to his life experience. A man on a small island may never hear of Allah but hear of Christ. He may become a christian. In justice love and mercy God must say that man follows me as best he understands. There can be no punishment for this in justice. If this argument is taken further it applies to other faiths, religions and world views.

To say God only accepts the Christian or the Muslim is to deny the essential characteristics of a worthy God.



But you never know he might have preferences; the solemnity of and majesty of mass, pilgramage, spiritual ecstacy etc etc.