To all who are unwilling to receive the words of Christ

[TheMinister]

Jesus Christ is like the captain of a great vessel who throws a life preserver to the man who has fallen overboard into strong currents. This man has two options, receive the captain's life saving offer for assistance, or be swept out to sea and perish. Jesus Christ is making this offer right now to all who read this post. Many will mock it and reject it, that's between them and God, but what about you Wake_Up_Call? The Gospel of John THE manual of who Jesus Christ is, and how to inherit eternal life. If your interested, it was written for people who have sincere questions like you. Read it soon. Also clink on:

http://www.ttb.org

http://www.intouch.org

They offer sound biblical insight. Peace to you.

[Rachel_E]

Hi everyone!
I have a couple of things to say. I read so much that I kinda forgot what the original post was about... oh yes, scripture. I'm just going to skip some of that for now. First, I want to apologize to Andy and anyone else who has ever had a bad experience with a Christian. Nothing bothers me more than someone who proclaims to be a follower of Christ and then turns around and instead of loving others to Christ, does the opposite. Minister, I'm not saying that this is you, so please don't get upset wiht me. But in general. But just like any other group, we can't all be stereotyped as the same.

I have found that Christ in my life has made it... hmmm, it's kind of hard to put into words... more fulfilling, more peaceful. That doesn't mean that trials don't arise and that I never face hard times, because I definitely do. But through all of that, I have a hope that the future will be bright, and I have peace, true peace adn joy inside regarding everything around me. And that may sound trite, but I know that it comes from God. I've experienced life with Him adn without Him. And there's definitely a difference. And just like anything in life, when you find something that makes you happy, whether it's a spouse, a boyfriend/girlfriend, a new car, anything-- you want to share it with the people around you and tell them about it. THat's how I feel about God.

Someone asked why you have to (I'm trying to remember exactly what was said) follow Jesus if he's already forgiven the sins of the world. Well, He has taken all of our punishment for our sins, and He's forgiven them... IF we accept that. It's kind of like a gift. I could buy you a gift and wrap it up, but it doesn't really become yours until you take it from me and keep it. It's like that with Jesus. He gave us this gift but until we acknowledge the fact that yes, he indeed takes our penalty from us and thus gives us life with him and a relationship with him, it does us no good. We need to ask Him for that gift and take it.

And the God of Christianity is God. We believe in one God. However, the confusing part comes when you hear things like God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. They are all aspects of God, if that makes any sense. This is one of those topics that I don't even begin to fully understand. God is probably what you think of as God. (that's not helping, is it?) Jesus is God in man form, when he was sent to earth. And after Jesus left eartha nd returned to Heaven, he left a spirit part of God here, the HOly Spirit, that would be here on earth.
I'm probably not explaining this well because it's difficult for me to understand fully anyway. But one God, three parts. Thus, the trinity.

Okay, enough for now. I hope that clears up a few questions for you, Wake Up Call.
And if you have more, ask away. I can try to answer. But I"ll be the first to tell ya that I don't know everything
My suggestion if you're curious is to pick up a copy of the Bible and start reading. I hate to take everyone elses' word as truth without reading myself. John is a book in the Bible and it's a good place to start.
Enjoy!

[Danny]

Not sure that I understand this.
In what way does Jesus accept this penalty? Who is asking for people to be punished and accepting Jesus being punished in their stead?

[Rachel_E]

Well, that would be if you agree that there's a Heaven and a Hell, which I believe in both. If you look into the Old Testament of the Bible, people constantly had to sacrifice animals, shedding blood, to cover up their sins, as a payment for it. God then forgave their sins by accepting this sacrifice. So Jesus became like that sacrifice. He shed blood by dying on a cross, substituting the animal that had been in the old testament. So He became the sacrifice forever, so that we'd never have to sacrifice animals anymore.

And the punishment isn't a physical punishment. It's being separated from God. And that separation, since God is in Heaven, would be for us to be in Hell apart from Him (after we die). So God offers us a relationsihp with Him, and that's the gift he offers.

I feel like I"m not explaining myself well today at all. Am I making any kind sense at all?
I can find specific verses in the Bible, or better ways to describe things. I'm just in between meetings and so I'm rushing right now.

Let me know if I'm not making any sense.

[Danny]

Not really.
If its God to whom these sacrifices are being made, and Jesus is equivalent to God, then God would be sacrificing himself to himself on behalf of other people - which is a system of Justice quite beyond my understanding.
Its strange how Ive never wondered about this before.

[explorer]

Wow Danny, you could really get us chasing our tails trying to explain the trinity. Maybe its one of those things you have to accept on faith. In Genesis you see God and the Holy Spirit. In New Testament, Jesus states he is the alpha and omega. He says if I recall properly, which there is a chance I'm not because I havent read the bible in a long while, " I AM" another name for God. Rachel is right, there has to be a blood sacrafice for the atonement of sin. Old testament it was animal sacrafices. Once a year a Levitics(sp) preist would also sprinkle blood upon the Mercy Seat of the Arc of Covenant to cover the sins of the Jewish nation. Son of God walked the earth as a man to indure the same trials and temptations as man. He could of came as anything I guess, but maybe man was the weakest and lowest form. He defeated death, by dieing descending into hell and rising into heaven. Maybe because we could'nt do those things, he had to. Now we just have to accept him. Baptism is symbolic of Christs death and resurrection I believe. Is it a requirement to get to heaven? I dont think so. I'm rambling again, sorry! Trinity is something I am not capable of answering unless it is just to say, it states in the bible, therefore i acceppt it and try not to question it. One final note, I know a lot of people with different religous beliefs, good hearted loving people. I find it hard to accept that these people would'nt go to heaven because of their different beliefs. Yes, I know that contradicts the bible I believe in, but none the less, I cant accept being the people that they are that they wouldnt get into heaven. Rachel, I know you think differently on that, this has been something that has always tripped me up (one of many things I should say)