New Sins

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by ANDY-J2
The early Christian church accepted the doctrine of reincarnation-why therefore was there no caste system amongst early Christians?

This cliam is patently absurd. Various syncretist sects such as the Gnostics who borrowed some of the doctrines of Christianity accepted reincarnation. The legitimate successors of the apostles such as Ignatius of Antioch, Papias, Polycarp of Smyrna, Clement of Rome, etc. believed no such thing.

It would be true to say that such beliefs can be used to justify caste systems

It's not solely that it can justify the caste system, but that it does justify the caste system.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Runrig-Fan
Well, um... I thought I was demonstrating that all along. I AM fighting for the gay peoples' rights and well being by arguing against you.

You think you are fighting for gay people's well being, but then again I think I'm doing the same thing. You have yet to demonstrate that it is your position which is in the long run actually better for homosexuals. In order to do so you will actually have to give a substantive rebuttal to the points I made in my essay, citing medical studies, etc.

Yes, and that's because that is totally not compliant with the spirit of our time anymore.

I couldn't care less about the spirit of the time. Neither could Jesus. Truth is objective, eternal, and absolute.

Okay, first you're doubting the truthfulness of my statement and then you're saying amen to it???

I was saying amen to the proposition that it is wrong to spill seed.

So you ONLY have sex when you mean to create a child?

One need not explicitly desire to create a child each time one has sex. One need only be open to the creation of life, which means no artificial barriers for the purpose of separating what God has joined together, namely the unitive and procreative ends of intercourse.

Well, there are many rules that have been dropped throughout history, not only by society but also by the church or the bible itself, such as:
A woman should always cover her head.

A woman should cover her head in Church. This is technically still part of the code of canon law of the Catholic Church. It is just ignored in the majority of Catholic parishes.

Women cannot speak in public when not asked to.
Women have to walk behind their husbands.
It is okay to rape women.

Never heard any of these in the Bible. The only thing that comes close is the Pauline prohibition of women speaking in Church.

Animals should be sacrificed to God because it's a joy for him.

And were it not for the perfect sacrifice of Christ which made all these sacrifices unecessary God's people would still be sacrificing animals today.

Rabbits are ruminant animals

The Bible doesn't say that rabbits ruminate. It uses a much more vague expression which is normally translated into English as "chew the cud." It is referring to how rabbits consume their feces in order to fully digest their food.

There was so much stuff in the bible, that has been PROVEN wrong and therefore was eliminated from the principles.

Let's hear it.

And if you do believe, that wasting semen is wrong because it's wasting potential life

This is not why I believe it is wrong to masturbate or have contracepted sex. These acts are wrong because they are selfish and offensive to God, and the latter turns the creation of life into an accident.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by reiverix
So, this stuff is ok then?

Just two points:

(1) Biblical slavery is different from the slavery of the Carribean and American South. It is more like indentured servitude.

(2) God tightened the belt on morality significantly in the New Testament.

[reiverix]

Please, do not try and justify biblical slavery. A slave is still property and at the mercy of their owner.

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
This cliam is patently absurd. Various syncretist sects such as the Gnostics who borrowed some of the doctrines of Christianity accepted reincarnation. The legitimate successors of the apostles such as Ignatius of Antioch, Papias, Polycarp of Smyrna, Clement of Rome, etc. believed no such thing.

Obviously it isn't patently absurd and clearly a substantial number of early Christians believed in reincarnation which isn't surprising given the influence of Greek culture and philosophy throughout the Mediterranean region at that time.Would the Christian church have gone to the trouble of declaring it a heresy were it not for the fact that many Christians believed in the doctrine?It is clear that Jesus was aware of the concept of rebirth and that his disciples accepted without question that it occured(John 9.v 1-3.)although it is questionable whether he actually promoted a belief in it but what he didn't do was condemn such a belief.


It's not solely that it can justify the caste system, but that it does justify the caste system.

Your argument is fatally flawed.What you are doing is focusing on one single religion out of several which teaches the doctrine of reincarnation then taking one immoral practice from that religion and saying there must be a link between the two-belief in reincarnation must lead to the caste system.The caste system does not exist in Jainism or Buddhism-both of which promote reincarnation and neither does it exist in Kashmiri Sufism which is an Islamic branch which adheres to the doctrine and neither does it occur in various African religions which believe in rebirth.There is no question therefore that a belief in reincarnation does not necessarily lead to the emergence of a caste system within any given religion so the reasons why the caste system exists in Hinduism must be sought elsewhere.If the caste system exists in Hinduism then the problem lies with Hinduism itself and not the doctrine of rebirth.

[emballantine]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
This is not why I believe it is wrong to masturbate or have contracepted sex. These acts are wrong because they are selfish and offensive to God, and the latter turns the creation of life into an accident.

Isn't it quite the opposite? By the use of contraception, "accidents" can be avoided yet love can still be celebrated between two people through sex.

[unsubstantial]

Doesn't places like the west baptist church say God hates gays, gay enablers and basically anyone who doesn't hate gays and doesn't speak out against them. Wouldn't that be most people? That's a lot of hate to go around. If God is true (which i don't believe)God must be the biggest bigot there is. So who is it that says God hates gays? Is it in scriptures or is it "Gods" word theirself? If this is what God think ****'em. And by using contraception aren't you preventing someone being born just so they can grow up die and go to hell? Because they way "God" sees it that's what's going to happen to most.