Changing Religion and Gender

[JKennedy]

I understand that Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor is the head of, or at least a member of, the Church of Scotland when she crosses the border into Scotland, though I have heard conflicting accounts on this matter.

Does she actually change faith when she crosses the border?
To which faith does "Defender of the Faith" refer?
What religion does she practice in Wales and in Canada?

I also understand that she is "Duke of Normandy" in reference to her possessions in the Channel Islands, and so is free to change gender.

What are the repercussions of all this theologically speaking?

[Edited by JKennedy on 18th May 2004 at 19:57]

[ANDY-J2]

Defender of the faith refers to protestantism and is a throwback to the time of the Glorious revolution when the principle of rule by consent of parliament and people was established.The monarch reigns only as long as they uphold the "true faith" of protestantism.In practical terms it means very little nowadays given that the UK is becoming increasingly secular and the importance of religious belief has greatly diminished,although the monarch is still banned from attending the general assembly of the church of Scotland.A symbolic statement to the monarch that the church will not tolerate royalty interfering in theological affairs.

The title "Defender of the Faith" was originally bestowed on King Henry VIII of England by the Pope of the day as a reward for some learned treatise written by Henry justifying Roman Catholicism. When Henry wanted to divorce his first wife and fell out with the Pope over it, he set up his own sect with himself as the head man. He called it the Church of England, and continued to use the title "Defender of the Faith", even though he had broken with the institution which originally gave him that title.

Queen Elizabeth is Head of the Church of England, and is a member of the Church of Scotland. As a Queen Regnant (as opposed to a Queen Consort) she holds several titles which are usually regarded as masculine. I think it has to do with male titles outranking female ones. She is Duke of Normandy and Duke of Lancaster, among other things, and when she made a State Visit to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia a few years ago she was declared an honorary man. Go figure!

[JKennedy]

Interesting. Three Scots with Four different opinions.

I think the faith of the "Defender of the Faith" refers to whatever is the faith of the "Defender of the Faith", which oddly enough, appears to be two different faiths, one episcopal, the other not, one protestant, the other not.

But what is protestant and what is catholic? Catholic merely means universal, and is claimed by many if not most churches. I associate protestant with the protestant reformation, which does not include the Church of England, though I can see how they claim to still be protestant.

What is less clear is the Episcopal Church of Scotland vs the Presbyterian Church of Scotland. Both came into being after the protestant reformation. Clearly one is episcopal and the other is not, but which currently adheres most closely to the original intent or spirit of the protestant reformation?
I think there are good arguments on both sides.

Ironically, the claim for the Episcopal Church of Scotland to be more 'protestant' is increased by its disassociation from the crown, whereas the claim for the Presbyterian Church of Scotland is diminished by its association. This brings into question the validity of the term "Defender of The Faith", but again, this depends very much on your point of view.

The other presbyterian churches of Scotland appear to be the most protestant in principle, though practice is always more difficult than principle. In practice catholic, protestant, episcopal, presbyterian, christian, non-christian doesn't seem to matter very much, though it does seem to help to be simple and poor. At least that's what I keep telling the wife. In the end I think the phrase "Defender of The Faith" is a good one and I don't really have a problem with it. It doesn't have to mean anything too specific. Like a jew can say to a muslim, "keep the faith", and they can both understand.

I think "Defender of The Faith" and "Defender of All Faiths" are not all that different. I don't think you can achieve either end without the other means.
If we don't get that, we are all likely doing something wrong to somebody.

[Edited by JKennedy on 19th May 2004 at 04:59]

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by JKennedy
But what is protestant and what is catholic? Catholic merely means universal, and is claimed by many if not most churches. I associate protestant with the protestant reformation, which does not include the Church of England, though I can see how they claim to still be protestant.

The word Catholic means different things to different sects, depending upon their ecclesiology (theology of the church). Catholics believe Jesus established one visible, institutional, hierarchical, teaching church, which we identify as ourselves. Hence we call our Church the universal Church of Christ. Protestants, on the other hand, do not believe that any one institution was ordained by God and vested with exclusive authority to speak in His Name, and hence they believe that the universal Church of Christ is a pan-denominational untiy which includes the true-believers of all ostensibly Christian denominations.

[JKennedy]

I think that is an oversimplification. It is a very popular one I'll admit, but it is inaccurate. The world is not so simply divided into one roman catholic church and many protestant churches. It simply isn't so. Personally, I wish there were more churches that did accept that there could be more than one church, but I can name not one. Universality of faith is very divisive.

[Edited by JKennedy on 22nd May 2004 at 02:31]