religion and control

[PRgirl]

Originally posted by drwineglass
iu personally think marriage ia a ball of crap ..it is merely a piece of paper invented way too long ago .....and lets a human being think thet he /she owns that person ......well no one owns no one ....it is the biggest waste of cash any one can spend in one day ....and to be honest weddings are like other days that people think are important ...like thanxgiving and christmas .....it is an excuse for a bunch of relatives who you cannot stomach in evryday general sense ....you have to go to the whole boring event and smile and pretend you like this so called family meber who really is a pain in your scrotal vent ....and if you look at the whole wedding ceremony it is like a meat auction the woman is covered in a veil like somone who has just been bought on e-bay and unwrapped in front of a bunch of half drunk family memebers who cannot wait to get rid of the bride because she is a whiner.....anyways ..and the groom stands there with that doofus smile on his face waiting for the reception to be over so he can get her into the sack......

PRgirl: Drwineglass, I did laugh quite a lot at your description of marriage. But, I must say being a married woman myself for 20 years and very happily at that....that marriage is the foundation of a family. And it is a great thing if entered into with the right attitude and spirit. It is also a very HARD thing to keep up and make strong...because it tests everyone's ability to accept, forgive, be responsible, love, care and sacrifice to its outer limits and beyond. It is a test of character in the deepest sense, Dr. Wineglass. Oh, you did make me laugh. I bypassed a church ceremony. Too short on funds at 18 years old (the age I married). And to this day my mother resents the fact she couldn't have a pretty little wedding. I think women like the social and ceremonial parts a lot more than the men. Lol. But, she loves my husband and my husband really loves her a lot....so much that he reminds me to invite my mother to anything of import and if I forget bugs me about it. Marriage is about being a FAMILIA...and a good one. If one sees one's husband or wife as being your faithful and loving partner in life, and you communicate and share and live through good and bad together and support each other and understand each other well....it is the most joyous and meaningful thing one can have, Drwineglass. The legal aspects are secondary IMHO. But, it all depends on WHO you marry and WHO you are....and how that is manifest in the relationship. Good marriages work due to many complicated reasons, and marriages fail for the same reasons, varied and complex.....I think the best strategy is "To thine own self be true." And don't look to your husband and wife to make you happy and be responsible for your happiness, but make yourself happy, and be filled with a lot to give to others by being true to yourself. I know it sounds like some fluff and stupidity, but it is true in every way. Drwineglass I hope you find some lovely woman to either live with or marry. Good luck.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by emballantine
The official Roman Catholic teaching on homosexuality. According to the U.S. bishops' Committee on Marriage and Family:

It seems appropriate to understand sexual orientation (heterosexual or homosexual) as a fundamental dimension of one's personality and to recognize its relative stability in a person. . . . Generally, homosexual orientation is experienced as a given, not as something freely chosen. By itself, therefore, a homosexual orientation cannot be considered sinful, for morality presumes the freedom to choose. 12

USCCB committees hardly represent the official Catholic teaching on any issue. The USCCB is a bureaucracy which really shouldn't exist, and has authority only in so far as it's documents recieve episcopal approval.

That having been said, this statement contains some truth and some falsity. Homosexuality is not fundamental to one's personality; this statement is contradicted by empirical fact. There are huge numbers of testimonials from ex-gays, for example those found here: http://www.pfox.org/Testimonials.asp
If anything, homosexuals who overcome their disorder are more themselves afterward.

I agree that generally homosexual attractions are not freely chosen, at least in the majority of cases. One might start out with a genetic predisposition, which might be activated by childhood experiences such as an abusive father, etc. It is certainly true that experiencing homosexual attractions is not in and of itself a sin. But engaging in the act of sodomy is a sin which cries out to heaven for vengeance, and also destroys one's physical and emotional health. This is why those who experience homosexual attractions at puberty should notify their parents and pastors so they can recieve the proper treatment and support, and ultimately reorient themselves.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by emballantine
For instance homosexuals (men and women) are no more promiscuous than heterosexuals. There is no more s/m or, in fact, no more anal sex going on among homosexuals than heterosexuals.

How do you know this? I suspect you are just going on anecdotal evidence, which is far weaker evidence than scientific studies.

Originally posted by emballantine
If you think heteros don't play in the bedroom, don't have anal sex, don't have multiple partners etc. you are living in a very sheltered heterosexual life.

I realize that there is a great deal of sexual depravity in the heterosexual community, though not as much as in the homosexual community.

Originally posted by emballantine
When you've already broken one taboo, it's easy to just keep breaking them.

Excellent observation. This is why the slaughter or millions of innocent children became inevitable once western society accepted contraception. Disobeying natural law and divine positive law is a slippery slope indeed.

Closeted gay men who went into the priesthood to hide their homosexual feelings molesting young boys. Who are you, as a christian, to preach at anyone about proper sexual morals???

I will not be an apologist for despicable crimes. I am far more critical of sodomite priests who destroy the innocence of little children than I am of sodomite laymen who have their partner's consent.

And how does one who believes that god made the world argue that we also have free will. Is it not blasphemous to imply that your god is an imperfect god? If he were a perfect god, then humans would have never strayed in the first place.

This is a non sequitur. If anything it is a testament to God's perfection that He can create rational creatures with the potential to obey or disobey.

[Rob_Roy_Kowalski]

In the main, I would have to say that everything i've read here would appear to indicate that you are all educated people. Why then do you persist in this futile argument, where neither side has the remotest chance of changing the opinion of the opposition?

I can only surmise that you all like to 'hear yourselves talk'. Ask yourselves this, how often do you read back your own posts in order that you can feel good about the linguistic and argumentative skills you feel you have displayed? Try to be honest now.

Feeling remotely embarassed yet? I think you are all guilty of it in varying degrees, but would have to say that Tom Sawyer appears to be almost obsessively in admiration of his own verbosity.

[DevineHerring]

Ok I just wasted an inordinate amount of time going through this thread, I now know why I don't bother any more. While many of the arguments are well formed and erudite on both sides I just find that arguing with theists is exactly like arguing with flat-earth proponents ( I quess some one has to do it). The falicy of their dogmas screams in their faces and they, cover their ears with their hands, shake thier heads and say "NO ! NO ! NO ! I can't hear it" (in the form of erudite argument) so they can keep reason from encroaching on the answers they have made for questions that don't exist.
Bahhh..