The Children of Judas........

[Mistress]

[i]What do you think about Vampyres being originally spawned from Christinity?

Truth... Myth... ???

The Biblical Story of Judas Iscariot
To begin with lets review a bit of bible history, for those of you who are not familiar with the story of Judas Iscariot. Judas betrayed Jesus Christ to the chief priests and elders for 30 silver pieces, Judas then felt so horrible for what he had done when he found out that Jesus had been condemned, he attempted to return the silver pieces. The chief priests and elders refused to accept them from him. Judas threw down the silver pieces in the temple, and departed, he then hung himself.


How Judas Became a Vampyre
Now there are many beliefs as to how exactly Judas becomes a Vampyre..

The first belief and most common is that God cursed Judas and his family to walk the earth until the second coming of Jesus, and until that time he would thirst for the blood of Jesus, which of course he could only receive through Christians. Which is proof that perhaps this myth was propogated by the Church.

The second belief is not as common, but goes along with the Last Supper. What many do not know is that during the last supper Jesus was quite serious when he said to drink of his blood and eat of his flesh, in fact half of his disciples walked out on him because of this. There are quite a few people who believed Jesus himself was a Vampyre, thus it is easily believed that Jesus himself created Judas knowing he would betray him, and perhaps created Judas as a grand experiment.

The specific quote from the bible is as such
3 - Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4 - Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

5 - And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
(Matthew 27:3-5)


In Conclusion
This myth is very obscure, it is old, and not as popular as many other myths, but it gives answers to why a few of the folklore beliefs exist. During the modern day the image of the Vampyre has changed, from a predatory creature of the night, to a almost romantic figure of modern culture. Perhaps this is why many origin myths have survived while others died out, there is a great deal less involvement by the Church in our beliefs and as such many of the truely religous Vampyre beliefs have all but died out.

In reality, most Vampyre beliefs were created by the Church to keep people from robbing graves, roaming the streets at night, and to generally instill fear in a relatively ignorant populace. And it is quite safe to say that the majority of our populace is far from ignorant, and as such, through novels and books the image of the Vampyre has become romanticized and glamorized.

What do you think Children of the Dark????

[moonchaser]

hmmmm interesting..

I will say that I know nothing about this but I will look into it so I can participate ...


... but I will say that in every myth there is some truth...

[Talon]

Originally posted by Mistress
What do you think about Vampyres being originally spawned from Christinity?

Truth... Myth... ???

Well firstly I would like to say that Vampires, IF they exist, exist in a form far different from what Hollywood or essentially everyone since,Bram Stokers: Dracula was released in 1897, would lead us to believe..All documented Vampires before Stokers dramatic romantacism, were not beautiful creatures but undead decaying ghost-like apparitions which sucked the lifes energy from its living victims...and not from sharp canine fangs either..

Vampires have become yet another of the old "Myths" to become butchered by Hollywood and writers alike.. In 1931 when the first talkiing film was released on this subject..it fired the immaginations of countless people particularily other film directors and its success bred a whole new genre of cult-like films by the early 60's hammer and christopher lee were synonymous with scaring witless the public but also making them feel as if they had been seduced by the dark side...

now as far as Vampires being spawned by christianity or Judas being the first Vampire....

I have in my time come across a few books which indicate towards this begining..and in Wes Cravens: Dracula his whole story is based around that claim, with judas once again being hung at the end, from a cross no less, and finally destroyed hanging there by the morning sun...I do however find it interesting how Vampires can be found in just about any sort of literature... if of course the reader is willing to twist things enough.. and the thing about jesus being a vampire is just silly..probably even more silly than the grand clonning experiment of the Elohim... If I remember correctly there was quite the outcry in some parts of America about the Harry Potter books... because the people in those places believe still so strongly in witches and evil magic that they thought Harry would corrupt there children... and I do believe they even won the case and harry was not distributed in those areas..lol

The human mind is rather fickle...and it will see evil were there is good..and good were there is evil...I cannot say for sure if Judas was the first Vampire sent back to feed on the blood of christians untill the second coming of jesus... but I can say that many cultures have there own versions of Vampire-like beasts and not all of them are christians...so I would have to say that if the myth transcends religious barriers then its unlikely that the judas concept asked about here and put forth in other sources is correct... furthermore I will re-iterate, it has only been the last 100 years or so that we have come to know on such a scale the Vampire.. through film and literature...to my knowledge the word Upir first appeared in literature in reference to a Russian Prince..he was in 1047 referred to as Upir Lichy..or wicked Vampire... and the next references which are substancial did not start appearing until very late in the 12th century...

In conclusion... when you consider that Vampirism is after-all only a Myth itself... then my reply to your question would be yes.. its a Myth.. Christianity cannot take the credit for everything..lol

[tayman]

don't know about judas being a vampire will have to find out more to keep up an inteligent chat on that

consider this vampires supposedly came from transilvania in romania.
all languages take words from the languages of countries around them not so with the romanian which is the most unique of all the romantic langauges.so where exactly did this spring from?? (otherworld??)

[Talon]

Originally posted by tayman
consider this vampires supposedly came from transilvania in romania.

Not really, you will find that only in the romanticized dellusional misinterpretation of Mr Stoker is this so... there is no evidence to be found anywhere..that Vlad tepes Dracula was anymore than an evil dictating MoFo.. sure he was horrid and even drank the blood of his enemies..but certain african tribes still do that to this day... its believed that it gives you the power of your enemy...in certain quarters at least

Originally posted by tayman
all languages take words from the languages of countries around them not so with the romanian which is the most unique of all the romantic langauges.so where exactly did this spring from?? (otherworld??)

this point is interesting though...and not one I am aware of... I can tell you though that Vlad Tepes Dracula was born in 1428 and was assisinated in 1477...and romania..or wallachia as it once was was a brutal place before his reign..held to ransom by the turks, for a very pricly sum..which ultimatly cost Vlad his brother and father... as far as the language goes i can only assume from the fact that romanians even today see Vlad as there saviour...and only use the Vampirism as a myth the same way we use Nessie to promote their tourism... but because of this past...they have become understandibly secular..as Vlad did instigate an empire which was ferociously defensive of its own laws and cultures... but I must say i although I am of a Vampiric nature and have much learnings on this..I dont actually believe in it..or think its connected otherworldly to anything other than immagination...which in turn was in the romantisized way , inspired by Bram Stoker.. like atlantis was inspired by Plato and too many others too count .. immagination runs riot in the minds of the immaginative

Vampirism today is very different..and its reguarded within our community to be a way of understanding oneselfs emmotions towards others...its in effect and energy thing..and that is why Wallachia/Romania is still secluded to this day...

but I love what you said about the language..i did not realise even it was still so secluded...

[Mistress]

[i]I have taken a back seat to this topic as I wish to hear with the rest of you think on this issue.. as well as educate myself even further. Thank you all for replying and to you Talon.. for all your input..

Tayman You had asked "so where exactly did this spring from?? (otherworld??)" What exactly do you mean? My question about Judas being a Vampyre?..

And let me just say that I myself am new to this world and I am exploring all possibilities.. I am just enjoying the learning behind it all.. When I did go see the movie "The Passion" It was clear to me then that Judas was the one that I had read about.. Sure I am Catholic Raised, but I will not say I know or remember all that I've been taught. And I did have to ask my trusted friend to clear all that up for me.. I am just looking at the possibility of other things as they exist all around us and perhaps we are closed eye'd to it all..

Talon I do agree with you as most of the Vampyre stories of today, are in fact a Myth and perhaps tales carried thru the years.. But It is a very large world out there, as you know and as I am just learning and many feel and live by the Dark World.

I wanted to share with you all this story about the Legend of Judas Children that I read. It is a bit of a sick.. lol.. piece actually.. Tell me what you think..

The Children of Judas

This legend hailing from the Balkans, bespeaks of a particularly nasty clan of Vampyres which are the off spring of Judas Iscariot.

These Vampyres are considered the uttermost vile and ravenous of the Balkan undead. They are distinguished by their flaming Red hair (Judas was a reputed red head.) And the infamous XXX teeth marks that their bite leaves upon their victims (Which signifies the thirty pieces of silver.)

They posses the ability to siphon all of their preys blood in a single kiss. They are also crazed for vengence, and often ressurrect in a means in which best to obtain their revenge, so they often return as the opposite sex in order to seduce their aggitator and kill them unexpectedly, however, they may be little and single minded killers who only leave a bloody swath behind them. The tell tale triple X mark, the only clue to be found.

Sadly, there are only a handfull of written accounts pertaining to the Children of Judas. This legend was mainly passed down orally from generation to generation.

Aye.. so what do you think of this tale?

[Mistress]

[i]Tayman...

Your original quote:
"so where exactly did this spring from?? (otherworld??)"

I know I asked you in my previous post what you meant, so in the event that you were asking me where It was that I got this from.. I wanted to share with you some of the Folklore that I have read behind all the Myths about Judas Iscariot.... Let me know what you think..



The Folklore Involved in the Mythos

It has been very common through Vampyre folklore to believe that those who commit suicide will become Vampyres themselves being that suicide is believed to damn your soul. This belief, most likely draws from the Judas mythos, as Judas hung himself in his guilt for betraying Jesus.

Another belief is the belief that Vampyres have red hair, a belief quite common in the Mediteranian region where red hair was uncommon. Judas is believed to have been a red head, and thus it was believed his children would also have red hair. This was found then to be a common sign of a person who was or would become a Vampyre.

Perhaps the most common of the Vampyre mythos is the belief that a Vampyre can be destroyed by a stake, more precisely a stake of aspen wood. Aspen is the wood that it is believed the cross upon which Jesus died was made of, thus because Judas had ultimately caused Jesus' death he would be repelled by the item of his demise.

It is also believed that the mythos of a Vampyre's repulsion by crucifixes and other holy items stems from the Judas mythos. Simply put, Judas felt great sadness for what he had done, and as such he was repelled by anything that reminded him of his great crime, and the atrocities which he committed.

The final folk belief about Vampyres that is attributed to the Judas Iscariot mythos is the belief that Vampyres are repelled by silver. It is believed that since Judas himself cast aside the silver which he had taken when he sold out Jesus that he now had a repulsion to the substance and as such was repelled by it.