Mind, body and spirit?

[CreepingJesus]

Hullo I'm back.

Artoo's original point:

I also noticed that the 'Mind, body and spirit' section is getting dangerously large. I'm not talking yoga or healthy diet here but rather the worrying rise of mysticism and psychobabble.

Is it just moral and intellectual laziness? Easier to believe in astrology than take responsibility for oneself?

It's about taking money from the credulous.

And if there's money in it everybody and his auntie want in on the bandwagon.

From the fortune teller at the funfair to the pope and those vile televangelists, it's about getting your money out of your pocket and into theirs.

Here's half of these shelves dealt with at a stroke...

The National Council Against Health Fraud

http://www.ncahf.org

The rest you'll find listed here..

http://www.skepdic.com

[Artoo]

Originally posted by moonchaser So tell me Artoo.. and I am being completely serious here... what exactly do you despise about the this mythical psychobabble?[/b]

It diverts us from the search for how the Universe (and, by extension, ourselves) actually works and so from the chance for real understandng that might allow philosophy (in its widest sense) to evolve and so admit improvement in the human condition - both physical and spiritual. There will always be mysteries enough in the real world without us having to resort to magic which, ultimately, will not improve our condition one iota.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(I've left 'heaven and earth' rather than 'Universe' purely in the interests of literary accuracy)

[CreepingJesus]

It diverts us from the search for how the Universe (and, by extension, ourselves) actually works and so from the chance for real understandng that might allow philosophy (in its widest sense) to evolve and so admit improvement in the human condition - both physical and spiritual. There will always be mysteries enough in the real world without us having to resort to magic which, ultimately, will not improve our condition one iota.

Well said that man.

The sheer mass of this rubbish also gives weight by use of the Appeal to popularity logical fallacy, so beloved of our own Tom Sawyer, to the perpetuation of pseudoscientific myths.

Take one example of pseudoscience: homeopathic "medicine".

This is believed to be an effective medical treatment by many despite the fact that it has been proven to be at best a placebo, and at worst a killer.

Homeopathy was held responsible for at least one 'avoidable death' from pneumonia, there were delays in cancer diagnosis and asthmatics needed hospital treatment after being told to stop medication

from The Daily Mail (London)

"Hidden risks in alternative therapies" (December 21, 1998).

James Randi put the nail in the homeopathic coffin on the BBC's "Horizon" Science program a couple of years ago..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...meopathy.shtml

So we know from experimental evidence that homeopathy is a big con.

However do a Google for homeopathy and you'll find dozens of sites waiting to relieve you of your hard earned in return for a bottle of liquorice water diluted x10 to the minus x.

These sites wouldn't exist if there wasn't a whole market of easily taken-in people out there.

The same applies to ear candling, reiki, and all the other quackery.

Of course we start this credulity at a very young age.

People tell their children, (well, not me), that there's a god in the sky that can do miracles, and he had a boy that came back from the dead.

Many states have a requirement for religious education in schools (a noble and notable exception being France), so is it any wonder, when children are raised to believe that stuff, that they'll also be attracted to any other ridiculous fantasy that's going?

Why do you think the big religions have to keep threatening their believers with hell if they stray from the true path?

It's cut throat competition for the exploitation of the gullible out there!

Shelves full of books in "respectable" book chains like Waterstones and Borders (Don't buy from them. They're union busters, http://www.iww.org/organize/news/borders/manual/ support the IWW boycott) add an undserved quasi-respectability to this stuff.

I'm not a book burner but sometimes it's tempting...

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Mistress
Do you think that it is not the work of ManKind whom has created Murderers? Rappiest? Child Abductors? Or will you say they were created by God???

I'd say the people were created by God and they abused their free will to hurt others.

These People have decided that on their own.. and honestly.. it has nothing to do with Civil Rights..

Correct. No one has the civil right to murder, rape, kidnap, etc. One does, however, have a civil right to believe whatever crazy philosophy one wishes to believe.

I have not.. nor would I come out and say you are wrong.

You should. If everyone were left to themselves to create their philosophy on life entirely on their own, most people would come up with very poor philosophies of life. Ideas should be subjected to critical review, and ideas which don't hold up to scrutiny should be discarded. This process is benefiucial to all involved, but it requires people to tell each other that they are wrong.

other then the "extreamlly sensative WOMEN issues mentioned.

They're not solely women's issues.

Do you not yet understand that I believe you are free to live you life the way you see it? without someone trying to convience you otherwise?

I don't mind it when other people try to convince me that my beliefs are false. It is their civil right to do so. It is also my civil right to do the same to them.

What is it with "Bible Go'ers" that they are the only one whom is right? I don't understand.. It's like brainwashing or something...

It seems that most "Bible Go'ers" believe in the law of non-contradiction. If you believe something to be true, you must necessarily belive that contradictory beliefs are false.

Extreamlly Sensative and Personal issue and only one that an individual can make.

Abortion is not a personal decision. An innocent life is involved, whose right to not be vacuumed into a shredder must be legally protected.

And forget about the Contraceptions.. It's totally riduclious to think that a women is only here to have children.... It is riduclious to think that WOMEN ar here to serve their man.. OMG.. get out of the stone ages.

You're jumping to conclusions here. I have never said women are only for having children, or that women exist to serve their husbands.

Why not prevent an Abortion if you feel so strongly abou them?

I'll do everythng in my power.

And let me ask you if the Church will provide for a family of 10 or so Children because they are not using contraceptions?

If the family cannot support itself, then that would be the Church's moral duty to help them, yes.

What of a women who was Rapped? Is it now that she should be forced to have that child because of what reason???

The baby wasn't the one who did the raping. I see no reason why he should be executed for his father's crime.

And if the child has a birth defect... the women should choose to bring that child into this world to live what? A life? No, not a life.. they will be waiting out the time to die.. that is all that, that child will have to look forward to..

It's entirely possible for people with birth defects to find happiness and meaning in life.

There is nothing wrong with "I believe this, you believe that" standpoint.. Why??? Why is that bad?

It is conducive to false beliefs.

[Mistress]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
I'd say the people were created by God and they abused their free will to hurt others.

Well then I would say that if it was not decided by God to allow others to live their lives based on their own free will then why doesn't he stop these things from happening?

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
You should. If everyone were left to themselves to create their philosophy on life entirely on their own, most people would come up with very poor philosophies of life. Ideas should be subjected to critical review, and ideas which don't hold up to scrutiny should be discarded. This process is benefiucial to all involved, but it requires people to tell each other that they are wrong.

OMG.. enough.. of this back and forth.. I’m done.. I will not keep repeating myself... If you are insisting on not reading what I am saying, then I will not keep repeating myself.

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
They're not solely women's issues.

[i]Your Kidding me right?[/b]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
It seems that most "Bible Go'ers" believe in the law of non-contradiction. If you believe something to be true, you must necessarily believe that contradictory beliefs are false.]

Yes.. Yes.. Yes..! Is that what You want me to say here? That I think if people don't follow the Bible then they have false beliefs??? Aye... alrighty then.

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
Abortion is not a personal decision. An innocent life is involved, whose right to not be vacuumed into a shredder must be legally protected.

And what about the rights of a women to have the RIGHT to make that decision for herself????

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
You're jumping to conclusions here. I have never said women are only for having children, or that women exist to serve their husbands.

lmao.. Are you married? lol.. Catholic? Well if you are .. then surely you are off here.. It is a fact that it is frowned upon .. NO wait.. It is just about demanded by the "Catholic" Church.. that a man and a women get married to reproduce.. To create life.. and if not, then there is a factor of sin there. Aye... Will this sin be for the Man? I think not! And OMG.... perhaps you've not said it yourself.. but go and ask a priest.. Go on.. and see what the main factor is in the eyes of the Catholic Church when it is surrounding Marriage!
Aye... let me know what ya find out there..

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
I'll do everything in my power.

Then stop having an issue with Birth control

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
If the family cannot support itself, then that would be the Church's moral duty to help them, yes.

[i]Again.. this would be totally interesting to see this happen. Aye, it seems I can't even go to Sunday mass without 3 money envelopes in my purse.. And my Brother who choose to send his Daughter to Catholic School.. well, lets just say, if he does not put 10% additional of his salary into the Weekly offerings, then his Daughter's tuition is higher thru-out the year.... Yes that makes me feel wonderful and totally sure that Help will be given to a family in need.

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
The baby wasn't the one who did the raping. I see no reason why he should be executed for his father's crime.

And why should a women who has been put thru enough horror and something as awful as that, need to be reminded of it every single day?

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
It's entirely possible for people with birth defects to find happiness and meaning in life.

To a degree, perhaps.. however, where is the choice of the baby in this respect? When does the baby decide that going thru life without limbs or something terrible, gets to make the decision that a life without living for ones self is acceptable? Someone needs to make the right decision.

I think from this point on.. I should bow out of this discussion. I feel that my points are not being read.. I also feel that no matter what I say, you are not in the position to see anything other then what you have decided to believe for yourself. That to me is not a discussion. And again, I have asked that we get back on topic here.. and I have only replied to you based on the fact that you keep replying, so I will leave this now by saying I will not reply to this discussion unless it is based on the original topic..




[Edited by Mistress on 15th April 2004 at 19:48]

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Mistress
OMG.. enough.. of this back and forth.. I’m done.. I will not keep repeating myself... If you are insisting on not reading what I am saying, then I will not keep repeating myself.

I could say the same thing to you.

Your Kidding me right?

No. Half the victims of abortion are men, half are women. It is an issue of human rights. It is the concern of everyone.

Yes.. Yes.. Yes..! Is that what You want me to say here? That I think if people don't follow the Bible then they have false beliefs??? Aye... alrighty then.

No, I have never said that.

And what about the rights of a women to have the RIGHT to make that decision for herself????

What right??? What right does anyone have to vacuum a baby into a shredder? Did the Nazis have a right to kill Jews? Was it their "own personal decision"?

lmao.. Are you married? lol.. Catholic? Well if you are .. then surely you are off here.. It is a fact that it is frowned upon .. NO wait.. It is just about demanded by the "Catholic" Church.. that a man and a women get married to reproduce.. To create life.. and if not, then there is a factor of sin there.

This is true. But the Catholic Church has never said that this is the only purpose for marriage. There is also the emotional and spiritual union.

Aye... Will this sin be for the Man? I think not!

Of course. The man is equally culpable for knowingly engaging in coitus interruptus.

Again.. this would be totally interesting to see this happen. Aye, it seems I can't even go to Sunday mass without 3 money envelopes in my purse.. And my Brother who choose to send his Daughter to Catholic School.. well, lets just say, if he does not put 10% additional of his salary into the Weekly offerings, then his Daughter's tuition is higher thru-out the year.... Yes that makes me feel wonderful and totally sure that Help will be given to a family in need.

Well, ultimately all the Church's money must come from donations. There's no such thing as the Papal States anymore.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Mistress
And why should a women who has been put thru enough horror and something as awful as that, need to be reminded of it every single day?

I don't see how having an abortion is going to heal the psychological damage of rape. All it could possibly do would be to compound it. Having a baby, on the other hand, could potentially be a great healing experience.
http://www.cathinsight.com/morality/letter.htm

To a degree, perhaps.. however, where is the choice of the baby in this respect?

Where is the choice of the baby when his mother decisdes to abort him?

And again, I have asked that we get back on topic here.. and I have only replied to you based on the fact that you keep replying, so I will leave this now by saying I will not reply to this discussion unless it is based on the original topic..

Then why do you keep asking questions if you don't want me to respond?