Mind, body and spirit?

[Bliss]

no one should dare say who should believe in what.

I disagree. False beliefs can imperil one's immortal soul (or lead to disastrous temporal consequences) and so should be discouraged by those who know the truth. [/b][/quote]

Truth??? Your idea of truth and mine may be two different stories......it's all a matter of opinion.

And I disagree with your statement regarding false beliefs imperiling one's immortal soul......that is obviously something that someone else drilled into your mind....but I digress that that is my "own" opinion.

You, just like everyone else, is entitled to believe what they choose.....everything in life is a choice....and in the end....well, we are all accountable for our OWN actions.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Bliss
Truth??? Your idea of truth and mine may be two different stories......it's all a matter of opinion.

I define truth as a state of correspondence between belief and fact. This is by far the most logical definition of truth.

And I disagree with your statement regarding false beliefs imperiling one's immortal soul......that is obviously something that someone else drilled into your mind....

No, I have formed my beliefs relatively free from outside influence.

You, just like everyone else, is entitled to believe what they choose.....everything in life is a choice....and in the end....well, we are all accountable for our OWN actions.

Indeed. I will be held accountable if I do not attempt to prevent people from going to hell.

[Bliss]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan

I define truth as a state of correspondence between belief and fact. This is by far the most logical definition of truth.

Again......a matter of opinion. I have seen people who's concept of "logic" seems utterly ridiculous, or ill-logical to others. Not everything is "black and white".

And I disagree with your statement regarding false beliefs imperiling one's immortal soul......that is obviously something that someone else drilled into your mind....

No, I have formed my beliefs relatively free from outside influence.[/quote]

"relatively free from outside influence".....a contradiction in the religious world. I have been to enough churches of varying religions in my life to know that most of what people believe is strongly influenced by the leader(s) of said church.

I have even seen churches that run down the people and humiliate them to the point that the individuals depend on the spiritual leader to guide them completely. If I'm not mistaken....that is termed as "brain washing"?

You, just like everyone else, is entitled to believe what they choose.....everything in life is a choice....and in the end....well, we are all accountable for our OWN actions.

Indeed. I will be held accountable if I do not attempt to prevent people from going to hell. [/quote]

You can spread the "knowledge" you believe....but if those people choose not to accept it, or see it the way you do...you will not be held accountable for "their" choice. Nor does that give YOU the right to condemn them to HELL either. I do believe that is the Good Lord's decision to make.....not some mortal man. Also, approaching them in a negative manner..."Your going to Hell if you don't repent!".....which I have seen many "Christians" do (including one of my own family members).....all you do is turn people away.

I find it ironic to see people who used to live their lives in total "sin"....doing horrible things......then when they find God.....all of a sudden they are so self-righteous....practically "shoving" their beliefs down other peoples throats. I'm sorry.....I am a Christian...but I do not believe "force" is necessary.

Lead by example. (But that is merely my opinion.)

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Bliss
Again......a matter of opinion. I have seen people who's concept of "logic" seems utterly ridiculous, or ill-logical to others. Not everything is "black and white".

Well, the 9 rules of logic (modus ponens, modus tollens, hypothetical syllogism, conjunction, simplification, absorption, addition, disjunctive syllogism, and constructive dilemma) correspond roughly to mathematics. And mathematics, when done properly, always yields correct answers.

"relatively free from outside influence".....a contradiction in the religious world. I have been to enough churches of varying religions in my life to know that most of what people believe is strongly influenced by the leader(s) of said church.

But since I was not given a religious upbringing, I have been able to accept the leader's teachings after critical review. I haven't just blindly accepted them since my youth.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Bliss
You can spread the "knowledge" you believe....but if those people choose not to accept it, or see it the way you do...you will not be held accountable for "their" choice.

Right, but I will be held accountable if I don't give it my best shot.

Originally posted by Bliss
Nor does that give YOU the right to condemn them to HELL either. I do believe that is the Good Lord's decision to make.....not some mortal man. Also, approaching them in a negative manner..."Your going to Hell if you don't repent!".....which I have seen many "Christians" do (including one of my own family members).....all you do is turn people away.

No arguments here.

I find it ironic to see people who used to live their lives in total "sin"....doing horrible things......then when they find God.....all of a sudden they are so self-righteous....practically "shoving" their beliefs down other peoples throats. I'm sorry.....I am a Christian...but I do not believe "force" is necessary.

Again, no arguments here.

Lead by example. (But that is merely my opinion.)

It was also St. Francis of Assisi's opinion, and it is my own.

[Mistress]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan

I've noticed that you and Mistress are much more heavy-handed than most moderators. Typically, moderators will led a thread just run its course so long as the discussion is civil and the person who started the thread doesn't complain.

[i]I agree with Moonchaser, as Artoo has asked for this thread to get back on topic.. So Artoo it is up to you which direction this thead goes, so please feel free to contact myself or Moonchaser if you have any additional concerns with this Thread.

[Mistress]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
Free will is an inborn trait. What you are allowed to do with your free will is a matter of civil rights

Free Will to choose and Live the life that we are given... is what I am talking about.. God has given everyone "Free Will" to make the choice on how to live their lives..

Do you think that it is not the work of ManKind whom has created Murderers? Rappiest? Child Abductors? Or will you say they were created by God???

These People have decided that on their own.. and honestly.. it has nothing to do with Civil Rights..

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
That's all well and good, and I'm not going to take away your civil right to do so. Just be prepared to be told that you are wrong and to be presented with reasons why you are wrong. Then consider those reasons and see if they stand up to scrutiny. If they do, and you find that the arguments for beliefs contrary to your own are logically or empirically superior to the arguments for your own beliefs, change your position. If they don't stand up to scrutiny, and you find them to be inferior, point out where why and how the person with whom you are discussing is wrong, and give him an opportunity to change his beliefs. Evaluate beliefs on a true/false basis. This is the only way to have meaningful discussions

[i]I have not.. nor would I come out and say you are wrong.. other then the "extreamlly sensative WOMEN issues mentioned.. and that is because I wouldn't tell you that you are wrong for living the way you wish.. Do you not yet understand that I believe you are free to live you life the way you see it? without someone trying to convience you otherwise?[/b]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
I have already picked mine, and I am going to try to peacefully convince others to pick the same, or to reject their previous beliefs in favor of them. People who hold opposing views will do the same thing to me. We will tell each other that we are wrong, and say where, why, and how. Then we will evaluate each other's arguments on a true/false basis. If one side's arguments are clearly stronger, the one with the weaker arguments might switch sides. This is fruitful discussion. But if no one is willing to say that the other person is wrong, this type of discussion can never happen.

[/b]

What is it with "Bible Go'ers" that they are the only one whom is right? I don't understand.. It's like brainwashing or something...

Originally posted by Fear_nam_BeanntanI do need to worry. There is no moral or logical justification for denying the personhood of the fetus. The fetus is a human life. And as it is, of course, innocent, it is society's duty to legally protect that life. Abortion is a human rights issue.[/b]

Extreamlly Sensative and Personal issue and only one that an individual can make.. And forget about the Contraceptions.. It's totally riduclious to think that a women is only here to have children.... It is riduclious to think that WOMEN ar here to serve their man.. OMG.. get out of the stone ages.. Why not prevent an Abortion if you feel so strongly abou them?

And let me ask you if the Church will provide for a family of 10 or so Children because they are not using contraceptions? What of a women who was Rapped? Is it now that she should be forced to have that child because of what reason??? And if the child has a birth defect... the women should choose to bring that child into this world to live what? A life? No, not a life.. they will be waiting out the time to die.. that is all that, that child will have to look forward to..

And please tell me.. will the church feed all these children a couple has because they didn't use birth control??? How about puting shoes on their feet.. cloths on their back?.. And OMG Don't get me going on Schooling... I doubt all these things for I've seen them first hand... and trust me having children is as free as going to church lately....

Originally posted by Fear_nam_BeanntanRight. I never said anyone should be forced to change their beliefs. What I have said is that one should approach issues from an Aristotelean true/false standpoint, not a postmodern "I believe this, you believe that standpoint." [/b]

[i]There is nothing wrong with "I believe this, you believe that" standpoint.. Why??? Why is that bad? I think it is more then Openminded that its keeping in mind that other things are possible.. ie: not being narrowminded..

I have also presented to you my reasons why I felt issues you brought up were not in my mind.. "right for me" and at no point did I say that you were wrong .. but You.. well it's really all that you've done here with me... and to be honest, its getting a bit old..

Bottom line.. when I decide that a new path in my life is to be walked... whether that be, religious, personal relationships, whatever.... that choice will come from me.. and certainly not anyone else..

You cannot conform all to your way of life..

(Now.. Back to "Mind Body & Spirit") Unless Artoo says otherwise.. and that topic reflects on Astrology..

I too follow Astrology.. as a means of "Guidance" only to a point.. and not a very serious one either.. Sometimes it is just fun to see if things are in fact laid out..

We are taught that all things in life happen for a reason.. Besides wanting to know the reasons.. lol.. I would like to know if it is even possible.. Astrology is a simple exploration of ones mind, and the universe.. If a person decides to live soley by that rule.. well, I guess that is their choice..