Mind, body and spirit?

[Mistress]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
You have a civil right to do so, yes.

I was not referring to Free will as a civil right..

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
Well, if you seek out a religious discussion (by posting in a religion/philosophy forum, for example) people are going to tell you that you're wrong and try to convince you to change your mind. I'll do it, Creeping Jesus will do it, etc. Instead of taking offense you should consider the arguments which are presented with an open mind, and be open to change. If you think I am wrong, tell me so and tell me where and how. This is the only way to have substantive discussions on these issues.

[i]I have at no point taken offense, and have just stated the simple fact that I live how I want and believe in what I want. And I think that is as "open minded" as a person can be.. To accept all possibilities without limitatioins such as you would get from certain religious beliefs.. And I was not seeking out a Religious discussion.. lol.. this thread "Mind, body and spirit" really is not about Religion. It is about seeking answers within the universe.. lol.. at least that is what I get from astrology.[/b]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
Not necessarily. Whole societies suffer when they begin to be permeated with false beliefs. Take Europe for example. The majority of Europeans have convinced themselves that there is nothing morally wrong with abortion or contraception, and as a result, the society is dying.

Oh no.. lmao.. I am not sure If I want to go here.. lol.. All I will say is, its not just Europe that feels this way.. "Free Will"... and the rest of what you posted.. here, I have no idea what it has to do with the ORIGINAL topic of this thread.. Abortion is a personal desision.. Not anyone elses to make but the person making it.. Is it wrong in the eyes of God?.. Perhaps, but then again.. you are not making the decision, so no need to worry.. and Contraceptions? lol.. Now.. lol.. How the heck can this be wrong? Sheeshhh... No need to answer this either.. I will never agree..

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
I think most people believe that it's possible to alter other peoples' minds. I've certainly changed my mind on issues due to reading other peoples' work.

Well there you Go..!!!!! Can I quote you now..? "I've certainly changed my mind on issues due to reading other peoples' work." IE:.. You changed your mind.. You made the decision to change your mind.. You were not forced to change, therefore you believed in what you were reading and that is the most important issue at hand...

[tayman]

an interesting quote from a book ive just finished
"he who seeks happiness is seeking an illusion, he who claims to have found happiness has merely found a bigger illusion"
perhaps one of our religious members would care to comment on this.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by tayman
an interesting quote from a book ive just finished
"he who seeks happiness is seeking an illusion, he who claims to have found happiness has merely found a bigger illusion"
perhaps one of our religious members would care to comment on this.

I'm reminded of a quote from St. Augustine:

"For he cannot be free from infelicity who worships Felicity as a goddess, and forsakes God, the giver of felicity; just as he cannot be free from hunger who licks a painted loaf of bread, and does not buy it of the man who has a real one" (City of God, Book IV, Ch. 23).

One who seeks happiness as an end will never find it. One who seeks God as an end will find Him and get happiness thrown in on the side.

[moonchaser]

Originally posted by Artoo
While browsing in Waterstone's yesterday, looking for books on weight-training and vector calculus (preferably in the same volume), I also noticed that the 'Mind, body and spirit' section is getting dangerously large. I'm not talking yoga or healthy diet here but rather the worrying rise of mysticism and psychobabble.

Is it just moral and intellectual laziness? Easier to believe in astrology than take responsibility for oneself?

Artoo the Despairing.

Not everyone who believes in astrology believes that their life and what they do with it is in the hands of someone or something else. I know many people who believe in astrology and also believe that their lives are thiers alone and they are responisble for everything good and bad that happens to them. They use astrology as a guide or a hobby.. nothing more nothing less. Yes there are people who live and die by what the stars tell them..which I believe is completely ridiculous..and I do think that for these people it is laziness. But hey to each their own I suppose


So tell me Artoo.. and I am being completely serious here... what exactly do you despise about the this mythical psychobabble?


(also I would like to add in more of a moderator voice.. that I would really appreciate it if this thread would get back on topic.. as in the topic that Artoo started not the deraling that we were brought to about the rise and or decline of Christanity..Thank you)

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Mistress
I was not referring to Free will as a civil right..

Free will is an inborn trait. What you are allowed to do with your free will is a matter of civil rights.

I have at no point taken offense, and have just stated the simple fact that I live how I want and believe in what I want.

That's all well and good, and I'm not going to take away your civil right to do so. Just be prepared to be told that you are wrong and to be presented with reasons why you are wrong. Then consider those reasons and see if they stand up to scrutiny. If they do, and you find that the arguments for beliefs contrary to your own are logically or empirically superior to the arguments for your own beliefs, change your position. If they don't stand up to scrutiny, and you find them to be inferior, point out where why and how the person with whom you are discussing is wrong, and give him an opportunity to change his beliefs. Evaluate beliefs on a true/false basis. This is the only way to have meaningful discussions.

And I think that is as "open minded" as a person can be.. To accept all possibilities without limitatioins such as you would get from certain religious beliefs..

You can't be an agnostic about everything. At some point you will have to make a decision about which beliefs are true and which are false. Out of the great sea of possibilities you must eventually pick a certain set of beliefs for your own, and reject all beliefs which contradict those. Hopefully, you will pick true beliefs, that is, beliefs which correspond to objective fact.

I have already picked mine, and I am going to try to peacefully convince others to pick the same, or to reject their previous beliefs in favor of them. People who hold opposing views will do the same thing to me. We will tell each other that we are wrong, and say where, why, and how. Then we will evaluate each other's arguments on a true/false basis. If one side's arguments are clearly stronger, the one with the weaker arguments might switch sides. This is fruitful discussion. But if no one is willing to say that the other person is wrong, this type of discussion can never happen.

Abortion is a personal desision.. Not anyone elses to make but the person making it.. Is it wrong in the eyes of God?.. Perhaps, but then again.. you are not making the decision, so no need to worry.

I do need to worry. There is no moral or logical justification for denying the personhood of the fetus. The fetus is a human life. And as it is, of course, innocent, it is society's duty to legally protect that life. Abortion is a human rights issue.

and Contraceptions? lol.. Now.. lol.. How the heck can this be wrong? Sheeshhh... No need to answer this either.. I will never agree..

"By your fruits you will know them." Entire societies dying because the birth rate is too low... that's definitely a bad fruit.

Well there you Go..!!!!! Can I quote you now..? "I've certainly changed my mind on issues due to reading other peoples' work." IE:.. You changed your mind.. You made the decision to change your mind.. You were not forced to change, therefore you believed in what you were reading and that is the most important issue at hand.

Right. I never said anyone should be forced to change their beliefs. What I have said is that one should approach issues from an Aristotelean true/false standpoint, not a postmodern "I believe this, you believe that standpoint."

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by moonchaser
(also I would like to add in more of a moderator voice.. that I would really appreciate it if this thread would get back on topic.. as in the topic that Artoo started not the deraling that we were brought to about the rise and or decline of Christanity..Thank you)

I've noticed that you and Mistress are much more heavy-handed than most moderators. Typically, moderators will led a thread just run its course so long as the discussion is civil and the person who started the thread doesn't complain.

[moonchaser]

And I quote:

Originally posted by Artoo


Notice that I'm trying to keep this on-topic and not have at least one thread not get bogged down by Feartie's fundamentalist xtianity.

Erm.. is that not a complaint??? seems so to me.. and if you have an issue with the way that Mistress or myself moderate please do take it up with our Admin.


And if Artoo requests that I or Mistress not try and keep this thread on track well then I guess we will both step out of it and let it go.