Mind, body and spirit?

[Mistress]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
Remember the law of non-contradiction. Two contradictory beliefs cannot both be true. Hence anyone who believes that their beliefs are true must necessarily believe that contradictory beliefs are false.

lol..
If you read my statement again Fear_nam_Beanntan.. I am clearly saying without hesitation that "My way of thinking is not the only one, therefore, contradictory rules do not apply to me as I feel a person will believe what he will.. and I care not to change the mind of another individual.. Again... "FREE WILL" That is what God gave us.. Clearly I am entitled to believe what I want.. without someone telling me that I am wrong, regardless of what anyone else thinks or how they choose to live..

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan
I disagree. False beliefs can imperil one's immortal soul (or lead to disastrous temporal consequences) and so should be discouraged by those who know the truth.

And I am not surprised that you disagree with me, because to me, it is obvious that you believe differently then I. And I am not disagreeing with your way of life, or anyone’s way of life, for it is NOT "I" whom will pass judgment on this person or that person, so in saying that, I will not live my life based on what others think, or that I will be making or facing "disastrous temporal consequences" for if it will be so.. then it is only I whom will have to face finally judgment for what I do in my life, and with my life. And right now.. I choose "Free Will" to live and believe what I want. I also wanted to add that forcing someone to believe in "their" way is borderline crazy if you ask me. lol.. I've seen some websites with Cults, and watched and read stuff as well.. and I just don't understand how anyone can go about living.. thinking that they HAVE to or CAN alter a persons mind.. and I pity the fools who fall under these spells..


[Edited by Mistress on 13th April 2004 at 19:56]

[Artoo]

Bloody 'ell! I'm nearly in agreement with Feartie, at least about contradictory beliefs and the dangers of false beliefs. We'll have to disagree on the 'immortal soul' bit though.

Anyway - I'll be tolerant of theists provided they are tolerant of my atheism - I'll not convince Feartie that there isn't a god and he can't show me that there is. Where we might both get worried is the rise in other forms of mysticism - pyramids, magic crystals, 'dreamcatchers', astrology, Lobsang Rampa and yer man the French motoring correspondent - where pseudoscience is pertrayed as science and used to support the insupportable.

No, I'm not tolerant enough to let people totally delude themselves by believing in pseudoscience that flies in the face of all evidence.

Anyway, must dash - there's a TV prog on about Stephen Hawking. Did I mention that I've had lunch with Stephen Hawking at Cambridge? Well, we were at the same table. Me and him and twenty other people. But reflected glory is better than none at all.

Artoo the Tolerant(ish)

Notice I didn't mention the Turin shroud. Don't want to intrude on another thread.

[Edited by Artoo on 13th April 2004 at 22:40]

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by ANDY-J2
Perhaps if Christianity in the UK had reinvented itself some decades ago it would not have declined to the the level it is currently at and people would not be looking for alternative systems of belief.

Everything I have read has pointed to the exact opposite conclusion; it is precisely Christianity's attempts to reinvent itself that have caused the religion to hemorage members in the west. For example, about 40 years ago the Catholic Church abandoned much of her patrimony and tried to adapt herself to the modern world. Disaster has ensued.

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20040119.html

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20031208.html

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Mistress
"FREE WILL" That is what God gave us.. Clearly I am entitled to believe what I want..

You have a civil right to do so, yes.

without someone telling me that I am wrong, regardless of what anyone else thinks or how they choose to live..

Well, if you seek out a religious discussion (by posting in a religion/philosophy forum, for example) people are going to tell you that you're wrong and try to convince you to change your mind. I'll do it, Creeping Jesus will do it, etc. Instead of taking offense you should consider the arguments which are presented with an open mind, and be open to change. If you think I am wrong, tell me so and tell me where and how. This is the only way to have substantive discussions on these issues.

I will not live my life based on what others think, or that I will be making or facing "disastrous temporal consequences" for if it will be so.. then it is only I whom will have to face finally judgment for what I do in my life, and with my life.

Not necessarily. Whole societies suffer when they begin to be permeated with false beliefs. Take Europe for example. The majority of Europeans have convinced themselves that there is nothing morally wrong with abortion or contraception, and as a result, the society is dying.

"Not a single European country has a birth rate that will enable it to survive in its present form through this century. By 2050, only one-tenth of the world’s population will be Europeans, and it will be the oldest tenth on earth, with a median age of 50.
Russia, already in a terminal population crisis, will, by 2050, be driven out of the Central Asia by Islamic invaders and lose huge slices of Siberia and her Far East to a China 15 times as populous."
http://www.shopnetdaily.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=332

Range of total fertility rate in 1995-2000

Less than 1.50

Switzerland
1.47

Japan
1.43

Lithuania
1.42

Austria
1.41

Macau
1.40

Slovakia
1.39

Ukraine
1.38

Hungary
1.37

Portugal
1.37

Belarus
1.36

Bosnia and Herzegovina
1.35

Russian Federation
1.34

China, Hong Kong SAR
1.32

Germany
1.30

Estonia
1.28

Greece
1.28

Slovenia
1.26

Latvia
1.25

Bulgaria
1.23

Italy
1.20

Czeck Republic
1.19

Romania
1.17

Spain
1.15

I also wanted to add that forcing someone to believe in "their" way is borderline crazy if you ask me.

I would never force someone to believe as I do.

I just don't understand how anyone can go about living.. thinking that they HAVE to or CAN alter a persons mind.. and I pity the fools who fall under these spells..

I think most people believe that it's possible to alter other peoples' minds. I've certainly changed my mind on issues due to reading other peoples' work.

[Artoo]

Irrespective of the motives of the founders of pseudo-science based cults, such as Raelism, it would appear that they only succeed in attracting disciples who are ignorant of real science. Does it follow that the way forward is improved education? Or is learning the real stuff too much for a large - perhaps even increasing - proportion of the population?

Artoo.

Notice that I'm trying to keep this on-topic and not have at least one thread not get bogged down by Feartie's fundamentalist xtianity.

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan

Everything I have read has pointed to the exact opposite conclusion; it is precisely Christianity's attempts to reinvent itself that have caused the religion to hemorage members in the west. For example, about 40 years ago the Catholic Church abandoned much of her patrimony and tried to adapt herself to the modern world. Disaster has ensued.

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20040119.html

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20031208.html

We live in an age where people have access to information on a scale which in the past couldn't be imagined.People have therefore become far more aware of differing views on spiritual matters-they no longer see a need to adhere solely to the system of belief provided by the Christian church.The inability of the church in Britain to adapt and provide a more liberal system of belief is what has led to the demise of Christianity in this country.I see no reason why a similar trend won't be repeated in other countries.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by ANDY-J2
We live in an age where people have access to information on a scale which in the past couldn't be imagined.People have therefore become far more aware of differing views on spiritual matters-they no longer see a need to adhere solely to the system of belief provided by the Christian church.The inability of the church in Britain to adapt and provide a more liberal system of belief is what has led to the demise of Christianity in this country.I see no reason why a similar trend won't be repeated in other countries.

If this is the case, why is it the liberal churches which are hemoraging members and the conservative churches which are staying relatively strong, and not vice versa? Why are Tridentine masses full of large, young families whereas Novus Ordo masses are thinly populated with the elderly? Your theory doesn't hold up to empirical observation. Liberal Christianity was dead before anyone thought to give it a try. Orthodox Christianity is the salt of the earth.