Question

[CreepingJesus]

[quote]I have no idea. There are any number of reasons why He could have caused this disaster. I cannot say for certain which one. All I can do is list all possible reasons why God allows evil to happen and say that it was one of them. A more detailed work on this subject is forthcoming on my website, but for now:

punishment
free will
purification
creating opportunities for the exercise of charity
etc.[/quote}

Embarrasing isn't it?

The charity one's a real howler.

I can't really improve on what Neil's already said on this.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Neil_Caple
Were all 40,000 being punished? What for?

I don't know. That could very well have been part of the reason.

Originally posted by Neil_Caple
What about the World Trade Center, was that punishment?

Quite possibly.

Originally posted by Neil_Caple
Free will??? How is being killed by an earthquake an exercise of free will?

Note that in my previous post I said I was listing all reasons why God allows evil to happen, not just those that are likely candidates for this particular incidence.

Originally posted by Neil_Caple
Purification? You'd better explain that one as I don't think 40,000 rotting corpses would do much for the water supply!

Wrong kind of purification.

Originally posted by Neil_Caple The one about charity is just sick. If you believe your God would kill 40,000 people in Iraq to create the opportunity for you to feel good about yourself as to drop a few coins in a collection tin then you and your God deserve each other. What sort of evil monster would do such a thing???

Wrong kind of charity. And no I don't think God caused it "just because." Again, it's an issue of contributing factors. Usually no one reason is sufficient to explain a given event.

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by Fear_nam_Beanntan

Not quite. Our picture of God is bound by the descriptions of Him found in a book written by Jews between 2,000 and 3,500 years ago. We can't just invent characteristics.

So did the Jews of the late Bronze Age have a greater insight into the nature of this deity than any other people?Your concept of God is based on a series of texts which were written several thousand years ago whose authorship was largely unknown.Equally their purpose is open to question-perhaps rather than divinely inspired scripture much of the bible is no more than propoganda?It would perhaps be no more irrational to simply invent characteristics for the God of Christianity than to blindly adhere to Christian holy scripture.

I've been doing a bit of thinking about this divine justice and punishment idea, and it raises more questions than it answers.

Justice must surely be fair and consistent to be considered just, don't you think? Explain why a just God would kill 40,000 Iranians in an earthquake as punishment, but not bother to sort out a wee lightning bolt for Osama Bin Laden. How can 6 million European Jews be exterminated, but Adolph Hitler be allowed to escape man's retribution by shooting himself? How can hundreds of thousands of Rwandans be butchered and yet Idi Amin gets to die of old age in a Saudi hospital?

The next thing I wonder about is what happens next? God decides to drop a building on a bad Iranian guy to punish him, and then what? Does He meet the Iranian at the Pearly Gates and say "sorry about having to punish you like that, but now you have been punished, come on in and enjoy life everlasting in Paradise" or does He say "you were bad and I dropped a building on you, now go to Hell" ? The first scenario would make the "punishment" element seem rather a blessing if the result is faster access to Heaven, with no waiting around for the ravages of old age, especially if the physical death was quick and painless. The second strikes me as being punished twice for the same crime. Don't they have double jeopardy protection in the divine statute books?

Another question about divine punishment.

Most Christian sects have a concept of free will. Most Christian sects have some mechanism by which an individual may gain access to Heaven, either by some sort of repentance or by accepting Jesus as a saviour. Say your God decided to smite a bunch of sinners with an earthquake by way of punishment, doesn't this act remove their free will? What if some of those sinners would have freely chosen to repent, or be saved, etc. at some later stage if they'd lived their full natural lifespan but God smote them before they got the chance, isn't He breaking His own rules?

[DevineHerring]

Forgive me for jumping in but this is one frustrating thread...
All the sane people (CJ, Artoo, Neil, Andy) while trying to give a rational answer to Macilwen with his naive question about the big bang vis a vis a specific creation myth, end up spending a huge amount of energy in trying to convince the stubbornly deluded narrowly focused and ignorant by choice who are unable to accept that they do not and cannot know the unknowable. ARGHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!

My good most deluded Head Religious Nutter : Fear_Na_Beanntan,
All of the convoluted analysis applied to the intentionally falsified and fragmentary histories, myths, superstitions and allegories in the all of those "religious" texts that you choose to accept as the explanation of existence ultimately provide, not the answer to the origin of all things, but, if you are attentive, a great deal of insight into the nature of humanity, society, law and the motivations of those that would indoctrinate and manipulate those less able than themselves to their own ends.

I should think that you should look deep into your psyche and find the true source of you “faith”. Is it sourced in fear, hubris, a will to dominate in your chosen field, or is it just that you just can’t stand to be wrong and having chosen the answer to this absurd argument you started with yourself that in trying to convince others you hope to finally convince for yourself?

My take is you just love the fight… you seem to bright to really buy into your arguments and if you do well…. I don’t know what to say…. Find a shrink I guess….

[moonchaser]

To DevineHerring,
Firstly I would like to welcome you to Scotland.com.
Hope you enjoy the boards, they can be quite amusing and entertaining at times.

Also, we ask that members keep the name calling to a minimum please, and we encourage healthy debate, so please jump in and let your opinions be known.

Thanks and enjoy,
moonchaser