Controversial...............

[fluffi]

Right, i know that this discussion is gonna cause a stir, and being an agnostic you may believe that this line of enquiry to be very critical, but it is merely a thinking point. Too many Christians use loosly the term God, and talk of going to hell, but here's the truth in comparison with what is said by many practising christians.

Here goes with the proverbial can of worms:

Summary of the role played by Satan in the Scriptures

Satan is an angel (Job 1-2). God made him before the world began (Job 38:4-7). Satan was very powerful (Revelation 12:3: "ten horns") and very wise (Revelation 12:3: "seven heads"). But he became the first sinner (1 John 3:8). Apparently at one point in the past (or possibly future) he led a rebellion in heaven against God (Revelation 12:7). In Satan’s fall, he drew a vast number of angels with him (Revelation 12:4, 9). Some of the fallen angels are loose and some are bound in a place called the Abyss (Luke 8:31). The loose ones we call "demons". Of the bound ones, there are two kinds, permanently bound (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) and temporarily bound (Revelation 9:1-11). Satan and his demons now wage war against God’s kingdom (Revelation 12:17). Some people think that Satan lives in hell, but hell is where Satan and the wicked will be sent at the last judgment. Satan now dwells on earth (Job 1:7). At the Second Coming of Christ, he will be bound for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). After the thousand years, he will be set free for a short time and will go out to deceive the nations (Revelation 20:7-9). The devil’s final end will be in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10), which was prepared by God for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).






Satan operates on Earth

Scripture describes this present time in which we live as an evil age and Satan is called “the god of this world,” Eph. 5:16; 2 Cor. 4:4. On several occasions, Satan is revealed to be the ruler or god of this present age and the world system that dominates our present world.

Now judgment is upon this world (Greek, kosmos); now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. John 12:31

I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world (Greek, kosmos) is coming, and he has nothing in Me. John 14:30

and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world (Greek, kosmos) has been judged. John 16:11

in whose case the god of this world (aiwn, “age”) has blinded the minds of the unbelieving 2 Corinthians 4:4

In which you formerly walked according to the course (aiwn) of this world (kosmos), according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Ephesians 2:2

In his temptation of Christ, Satan declared, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish” (Luke 4:5). Of course, God is sovereign and omnipotent, but in accord with God’s eternal purposes, as discussed previously, the Bible does teach us that this present world is Satan’s domain and under his authority.

_______________


From this, we can conclude that our God, our ruler, etc is i n fact Satan!! Where as the 'God' 'we' all worship is the creator, the LORD. And thos that have sinnd will not got to hell when we die, because if you read revelation closely you will see that Hell is not opened, and no one will be cast in to hell until approximately 100 years after the second coming of the son of god! Judgement Day. Ad bad news fr those that are pure, according to Revelation, only Approx. 144k people will be sent to Heaven, upon judgement day. Even though if The second coming were to happen right now, we would all be dead by the time Satan is cast into the pit of Hell!

Given this food for thought, what do Christians think of this theory, and those of other religions, I would like to hear what the doctrine of your religion dictates with regards to 'who is god', and the 'after life'.

Once again, Fluffi has been reading something he shouldn't have.

Oh and may I note how dissapointed I was to find out that Satan had seven heads, poor guy! And the superstitious of you do you think seven is really lucky???? And yes I know that the scroll the 'lamb' (Christ) opens has Seven seals! But is the number really lucky, or unlucky???

I've said enough, time for your contibutions!

[b]Who Da Fluff!!![/b[

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

A quick lesson in symbolic numbers, before I begin:
4 signifies the world, 6 imperfection, 7 totality of perfection, 12 the tribes of Israel or the Apostles, and 1000 immensity.

Originally posted by fluffi
At the Second Coming of Christ, he will be bound for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). After the thousand years, he will be set free for a short time and will go out to deceive the nations (Revelation 20:7-9)

I believe the chaining of Satan symbolizes Christ's resurrection-victory over death, which He accomplished at His first coming. The 1000 years is not meant as 1000 literal years, but rather symbolizes the great amount of time between Christ's first coming and the end of the world.

Originally posted by fluffi
Ad bad news fr those that are pure, according to Revelation, only Approx. 144k people will be sent to Heaven, upon judgement day.

12^2 x 1000 = 144,000. The number symbolizes an immensity of people, from the tribes of the "new Israel," the Church.

[Mamie]

but....

[fluffi]

Fear.....

You refer to the cjaining of Satan as being the result of Christ's victory over death. Revelation states that the chaining of Satan occurs at Christ's second coming. The ressurection is not Christ's second coming, it is the point where he returns to be with the creator. The proposed second coming has not yet happened. the 1000 years (symbolic or not) will not occur until after the second coming. A vital flaw in your arguement.......

Do you still believe that Satan is chained up, or free to rule the planet.

It's jus like every one thinks Satan has two horns and one head, look closely, satan has 10 horns and seven heads, that is because that is what is described in the bible, not a basic 'chinese whisper' (Revelation 13:1-10) On that note, i would like to clarify a point that many are ill informed about, the guy we all see pictures of with red skin, two horns, and a serpents tail, is not infact a true reflection of the man himself, it is infact:

13:11: And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 13:12: And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast (Satan), whose deadly wound was healed. 13:13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 13:14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 13:15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Revelation)

Your contributions please..........

Big Bad Fluff

[Mamie]

hey fluffi how do dragons speak anyway?

..erm I am the Dragon Queen and...





I know I am being silly but I have spent the last three days working on my genealogy and the brain doesn't really want to be philosophical just now. LOL

[ScabbyDouglas]

Fluffi,

I'm troubled when people try to "interpret" stuff from the Book of Revelation. It's only marginally better (possibly worse) than the extremely enthusiastic Jehovah's Witness who came to my door one evening, who insisted that it was all to be taken absolutely literally.

I'd observe that the Devil or Satan is given a low profile by most Christian churches, nowadays. And it may well be because there is not that much clear or unambiguous about his role or his relationship with God, from Scripture.

Still... it's kind of hard for believers to officially or openly badmouth bits of the Bible. Do that to one bit, and there's no knowing where it'll end...


...Oh, hey Tom, how are you?
didn't see you lying there as I came in...

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by ScabbyDouglas
I'd observe that the Devil or Satan is given a low profile by most Christian churches, nowadays. And it may well be because there is not that much clear or unambiguous about his role or his relationship with God, from Scripture.

That's why you look to Apostolic Tradition.