debate on justification

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/matt1st.html

[BatEl]

maybe its time 2 let every1 check the posters without coming accross WebSites that no1 seems 2 have actually asked 4!!This is not a discussion...just...oh lets look up the Bible...& c what it says about so & so!

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

The discussion is about the proper interpretation of the Bible. The section I linked to was written by a Catholic; 2 clicks will take you to articles written by a sola fide Protestant.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

The only thing that matters in Christ Jesus is "faith, working through love" (Galatians 5:6). However, "if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing" (1 Corinthians 13:2).

[Theja]

I'm sorry to see Matt promoting the Faith-plus Salvation. SALVATION IS FAITH IN CHRIST PLUS NOTHING.

He confuses Galatians with James. In Galatians Paul is dealing with legalist --- law plus Christ = Salvation. Paul says NO WAY: salvation is in Christ alone.

In James, the writer is dealing with gnostics and antinomians --- head knowledge unrelated to godly living (ngostic) or now you can live footloose and fancy free (antinomian).

Also I'm disturbed by the misapplication of scripture verses and parables to justify faith-plus-works salvation theology.

I don't wish to write a lengthy paragraph by paragraph response, but I see the confusion of Matt very clearly.

Wrong theology produces WRONG GUILT. It can be corrected only by "rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15).

Galatians: Justification by faith.
James: evidence of faith.

Faith is the root of salvation -- Works are the fruit of salvation.

Faith is the cause of salvation -- works are the result of salvation.

A sinner is saved by grace through faith. A saved sinner lives by grace. A live lived in grace produces good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10). See the sequence -- Saved by grace, followed by works of grace.

Don't dare to insult the finished work of Christ by offering to WORK FOR your salvation. But do WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12), meaning live as one truly transformed in Christ. The Christian life is not free from dangers, temptations, and struggles. But with God's help, and growing toward maturity, one can live out the life of a truly saved person.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

No Christian church has ever claimed that we can earn our own salvation through works. That is Pelagian heresy. Salvation is a gift, and we are saved by God's grace. However, remaining in God's grace requires our continued obedience to God. "If you would enter life, keep the commandments." John clearly connects belief in Christ with obedience: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him." [John 3:36] In Galatians, Paul was not asserting that salvation is contingent on faith alone. As you can see in Galatians 5:6, he considered "faith, working through love" to be the cause of justification.

James was clearly speaking of the cause of justification, not just the fruits. "You see that man is justified by works and not by faith alone." I don't see any way of interpreting around it.

[Edited by Fear_nam_Beanntan on 29th July 2003 at 07:08]

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

"If Luther's interpretation were allowed to stand, then St. Paul would come into direct contradiction not only with St. James (ii, 24 sqq.), but also with himself; for, except St. John, the favourite Apostle, he is the most outspoken of all Apostles in proclaiming the necessity and excellence of charity over faith in the matter of justification (cf. I Cor., xiii, l sqq.). Whenever faith justifies it is not faith alone, but faith made operative and replenished by charity (cf. Gal., v 6, "fides, quae per caritatem operatur"). In the painest language the Apostle St. James says this: "ex operibus justificatur homo, et non ex fide tantum" (James, ii, 24); and here, by works, he does not understand the pagan good works to which St. Paul refers in the Epistle to the Romans, or the works done in fulfilment of the Jewish Law, but the-works of salvation made possible by the operation of supernatural grace, which was recognized by St. Augustine (lib. LXXXIII, Q. lxxvi n. 2). In conformity with this interpretation and with this only is the tenor of the Scriptural doctrine, namely, that over and above faith other acts are necessary for justification, such as fear (Ecclus., i, 28), and hope (Rom., viii, 24), charity (Luke, vii, 47), penance with contrition (Luke, xiii, 3; Acts, ii, 38; iii, 19), almsgiving (Dan., iv, 24; Tob., xii, 9). Without charity and the works of charity faith is dead. Faith receives life only from and through charity (James, ii, 26). Only to dead faith (fides informis) is the doctrine applied: "Faith alone does not justify". On the other hand, faith informed by charity (fides formata) has the power of justification." (New Advent)