New Testament Family Values

[SandyO]

Matthew

Jesus shows no compassion for the bereaved, saying to a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:21

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much. We have to make sure that we always love him (who we don't even know existed) more than our family. 10:37

When Jesus' mother and brothers want to see him, Jesus rudely asks, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" So much for Jesus' family values. 12:47-49

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So Jesus thinks that children who curse their parents should be killed. 15:4-7

Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29

Jesus tells us to "call no man your father upon the earth." Not even dear old dad? Was it OK for Elisha to cry out "father, father" as Elijah ascended into heaven? (2 Kg.2:12) And how can we "honor our father" if we refuse to call him our father? (Ex.20:12, Dt.5:16) 23:9

"Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days." Why? Does God especially hate pregnant and nursing women? 24:19

Mark

Jesus shows disrespect for his mother and family by asking, "Who is my mother, or my brethren?" when he is told that his family wants to speak with him. 3:31-34

Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families. 10:29-30

Luke

When Jesus' parents begin the long trip back to Nazareth, the twelve year old Jesus stays behind, without even asking for their permission. Mary and Joseph search for him for three days and when they finally find him, Jesus doesn't apologize. Rather, he blames them for not knowing that he was doing his real father's business. 2:43-49

Peter and his partners (James and John) abandon their wives and children to follow Jesus. 5:11

Jesus, when told that his mother and brothers want to see him, ignores and insults them by saying that his mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it. 8:20-21

Jesus won't even let his followers bury their dead parents or say farewell to their families before abandoning them. 9:59-62

Jesus prophesies that families will be divided because of him and his teachings. Sadly, this is one prophecy that has been fulfilled. 12:53

Jesus says that his disciples must hate their families (mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, children) and themselves. 14:26

If you want to be a disciple of Jesus, you must abandon everything, including your family. 14:26

Abandon your wife and family for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 18:29-30

Jesus says that everyone in heaven is single. Does that mean that married people can't go there, that they must get a divorce once they arrive, or what? 20:35

John

Jesus speaks rudely to his mother, saying: "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" 2:4

Jesus tells his family that he wasn't going to the feast, but he was lying, as he later goes "in secret. 7:8-10

Acts

Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

If you "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," then you and your whole family will be saved; Otherwise, God will send you to hell. 16:30-31

Romans

"He that spareth not his own son" shouldn't be trusted by anyone. 8:32

1 Corinthians

Paul wishes that men and woman abstain from sex, but tells them to "come together" to avoid being tempted by Satan. 7:5

Finally, after discouraging marriage for eight verses, Paul concedes that "it is better to marry than to burn." 7:9

Paul advises those that are "loosed from a wife" not to get married again. 7:27

Ephesians

Paul orders wives to submit themselves to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were gods. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24
Colossians

Wives, according to Paul, must submit themselves to their husbands. 3:18

Paul says that children should obey their parents "in all things." This verse must be a favorite for Christian parents who abuse their children. 3:20

1 Timothy

You should help a widow only if she : 1) is over 70 years old, 2) had only one husband, 3) has raised children, 4) has lodged strangers, 5) has "washed the saints feet," 6) has relieved the afflicted, and 7) has "diligently followed very good work." Otherwise, let them starve. "But the younger widows refuse [to help]: for ... they will marry; having damnation." Besides the young widows are always idle tattlers -- "busybodies, spreading things which they ought not." He adds that "some are already turned aside after Satan." 5:9-15

Hebrews

God hurts those that he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, they you are a *******, not a son. 12:6-8

James

James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God), Paul ( 2:21

1 Peter

Peter orders all wives to be "in subjection" to their husbands. 3:1

Wives are to use "chaste conversation, coupled with fear." They are not to braid their hair, wear gold, or put on any "apparel." They are to do these things in imitation of the "holy" women of the Old testament who were "in subjection to their won husbands: even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord." 3:2-6

In relation to her husband, the wife is "the weaker vessel." 3:7

2 Peter

Lot, who in Gen.19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later(19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2:8

[BatEl]

Excuse me Sandy...I think something was lost in the many Translations... of the Original sayings, & I think any part of speeches or sayings, taken out of context sounds unreasonable even plain daft!!!

[SandyO]

The translations are not taken out of context any more than the ones used in other religious posts in this forum. Feel free to dispute the translations.

When one reads a historical and factual document, such as the Bible claims to be, one must take off the rose colored glasses to read everything that is written with a detached and open mind. Otherwise, we get to be included in that group that prefers to pick and choose what is to be believed in and what is not....much like grocery shopping...we can say we don't like this particular fruit, but rather prefer this other one here because it better suits our sensibilities.

Ignoring the Bible's more shady aspects of human activities is denial of the real god.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by SandyO
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:21

Read the next verse as well. "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved." (Matt 10:22) Jesus is not commanding or even sanctioning the violence described in the previous verse. He is merely warning His disciples that they will face persecution for being Christians. He is putting steel in their spines and consoling them at the same time.

And it is clear that you haven't taken the time to investigate OT prophesy. If you had, you wouldn't dismiss it so quickly. I will use the book of Daniel as representative of the whole Bible. Parenthesis indicate historical background. Everything else is taken straight from the text.

Daniel predicted that the Greeks would conquer Medio-Persia and build a large empire (which they did under Alexander the Great), which would subsequently split into 4 smaller empires (Ptolemy, Seleucus, Lysimachus, Cassander). The Northern and Soutern empires would struggle back and forth, with the Northern (Seleucid) empire eventually gaining the upper hand. From the Northern empire there would arise a leader (Antiochus Epiphanus) who would brutally opress the Jews and suspend the temple service in Jerusalem. However, the Jews would eventually defeat their opressor (Maccabean rebellion) and after 2,300 days from the time it was ended (171 B.C. to Dec. 25, 165 B.C.), the temple service would be restored. There are only 2 ways to explain this phenomenon. Either the Bible is inspired of God or the prophecies were written after the events they claim to have foretold. However, all of the internal and external evidence regarding the date of composition of Daniel suggests that it was written shortly after the Persians conquered Babylon.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus preached radical new ideas, and claimed to be the culmination of thousands of years of history. Obviously His presence was going to shake things up and divide families. But if you look at His other teachings, you will see that He desired harmony.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much. We have to make sure that we always love him (who we don't even know existed) more than our family. 10:37

He never told us to love our family members less, only to love Him more. You are right in thinking that, coming from anyone but God, this is an incredibly arrogant statement. However, if you accept Christ's divinity it makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by SandyO
When Jesus' mother and brothers want to see him, Jesus rudely asks, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" So much for Jesus' family values. 12:47-49

Read the next two verses and it becomes clear that Jesus doesn't mean any disrespect to His blood relatives. He is merely making the point that His family includes all God fearing people.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So Jesus thinks that children who curse their parents should be killed. 15:4-7

Uf. You have really mangled this one.

The death penalty for breaking the 4th commandment had never been enforced. It was there mostly as a deterrant, and to make clear the gravity of the offense. I seriously doubt that Jesus wanted to change the traditional interpretation to a more legalistic one, for He often emphasized the importance of the spirit of the law over the letter of the law (cf. Luke 6:1-5). It is also clear from His command to "suffer little children" that Jesus had more respect for children than His contemporaries.

Also, if you read Matthew 15:5-7, you will find that Jesus wasn't rebuking the Pharisees for failing to execute disobedient children. He was rebuking them for providing a loophole to children who did not wish to help their parents in time of need.

If a man's parents needed financial help, the Pharisees would allow him to claim that his wealth was dedicated to God, so that he wouldn't have to give them anything. "Sorry Mom, the preist said that my Cadillac belongs to God, so I can't sell it to pay for your chemotherapy." Rightly did Jesus rebuke the Pharisees!

Originally posted by SandyO
Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29

Sometimes people have to leave their families to participate in momentous events in history (WWII, Afghanistan, the reconciliation of man to his creator, etc.)

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus tells us to "call no man your father upon the earth." Not even dear old dad? Was it OK for Elisha to cry out "father, father" as Elijah ascended into heaven? (2 Kg.2:12) And how can we "honor our father" if we refuse to call him our father? (Ex.20:12, Dt.5:16) 23:9

I think it's quite obvious that Jesus is speaking METAPHORICALLY.

Originally posted by SandyO
"Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days." Why? Does God especially hate pregnant and nursing women? 24:19

He doesn't hate them. He is merely stating the fact that the tribulation will be a very difficult time, especially for women in such a vulnerable position.

Originally posted by SandyO
Peter and his partners (James and John) abandon their wives and children to follow Jesus. 5:11

You make it sound like they left their wives and children to starve. However, they would have had a strong Jewish community to fall back on, and an extended family that would gladly see to their needs.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus says that his disciples must hate their families (mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, children) and themselves. 14:26

Again, speaking metaphorically. He is making the point that God must come first, and we must love God more than any human.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus says that everyone in heaven is single. Does that mean that married people can't go there, that they must get a divorce once they arrive, or what? 20:35

Humans will be like angels (non-sexual), and there will be no more procreation. Also, every saint will be joined in a communion of love. Ergo, marriage will be irrelevant.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus speaks rudely to his mother, saying: "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" 2:4

Actually, in Aramaic, "woman" was a very respectful form of adress. Also, my Bible translates the second part as "what does that have to do with us?" However, Jesus subsequently fulfills His mother's request to help the wedding guests.

Originally posted by SandyO
Jesus tells his family that he wasn't going to the feast, but he was lying, as he later goes "in secret. 7:8-10

Jesus tells His family that He wasn't going to the feast publicly, because people hate Him. Context, context, context.

Originally posted by SandyO
If you "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," then you and your whole family will be saved; Otherwise, God will send you to hell. 16:30-31

You reject Jesus, you reject God. You reject God, you don't go to heaven. But people who through no fault of their own never hear the Gospel can still go to heaven.

Originally posted by SandyO
Finally, after discouraging marriage for eight verses, Paul concedes that "it is better to marry than to burn." 7:9

Celibacy, while certainly not for everyone, is ideal. Imagine how many millions of lives could be saved if one in 1000 Americans decided to devote their lives to charity instead of raising a family.

Originally posted by SandyO
Paul orders wives to submit themselves to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were gods. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24

Wives, according to Paul, must submit themselves to their husbands. 3:18

Yes, the husband is the de jure ruler of the Christian household. However, the wife often ends up in the de facto position of power.

If that doesn't satisfy you, you have every right not to be a Christian. But please, quit wasting your time attacking my belief system. We'll all be a lot happier.

Originally posted by SandyO
Paul says that children should obey their parents "in all things." This verse must be a favorite for Christian parents who abuse their children. 3:20

Oh, please. This statement is the moral equivalent of "listen to what your mommy tells you." You are reading the worst possible interpretation into it. Read the very next verse. "Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart." From that and Mark 10:13-16, and the proverbs, it is clear that parents are suppossed to love and respect their children (though some physical chastisement allowed).

Originally posted by SandyO
You should help a widow only if she : 1) is over 70 years old, 2) had only one husband, 3) has raised children, 4) has lodged strangers, 5) has "washed the saints feet," 6) has relieved the afflicted, and 7) has "diligently followed very good work." Otherwise, let them starve. "But the younger widows refuse [to help]: for ... they will marry; having damnation." Besides the young widows are always idle tattlers -- "busybodies, spreading things which they ought not." He adds that "some are already turned aside after Satan." 5:9-15

Those were the requirements for putting widows on the church's official list of people whom they financially supported. The church was probably on a tight budget and could not afford to support everybody. So, they encouraged a widow's own family to take care of her, and for young widows to remarry.

Originally posted by SandyO
God hurts those that he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, they you are a *******, not a son. 12:6-8

Amen.

Originally posted by SandyO
Lot, who in Gen.19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later(19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2:8

Obviously, offering up his daughters to the mob was an act of extreme cowardice. Lot was not perfect. But he was righteous in the sense that he respected God's commandments.

And the daughters got him drunk! Lot didn't know what the hell he was doing in that tent!

[Theja]

FNB, I admire your patience in typing answers to Mikal and here.

Nothing personal. But I notice right away the appaling ignorance of SandyO on scriptures. Not only that Sandy detach the quotes from their proper contexts.

I think right now we'd only be throwing pearls to swine (Matthew 7:6) in answering such blatant misunderstanding with 'attitude' -- meaning not ready to receive proper interpretation.


EXAMPLE: Matthew 8:21-22 (the first salvo by SandyO). "Suffer me first to go and bury my father" --- a Middle Eastern way of saying "let me take care of my father until he dies and then I'll come and follow you". Not now, but later. A nice excuse.

Jesus hinted that there is no reason to delay if he really wishes to follow Him.

[STHO]

Jesus primarily delivered a message of love. He demonstrated compassion. He was definitely not hard or harsh. Humility was his style and demeaner. He was the perfect example of love and compassion.

http://www.steveholder.com/jesus.html

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

You're picking and choosing what you want to believe about Jesus. Much like going to a grocery store, as SandyO said.