Muslim Christian Dialogue very intresting

[Mikal]

http://www.al-sunnah.com/books/dialogue.htm

you can learn much about cristianity and islam same time

[Auld-Kelpie]

I hope that those who come here will enjoy your link & treat it with the respect that it deserves. It is an excellent link. Thank you

[Theja]

Yes, its a well-organised site. I have seen basically all the arguments there, trying to highlight so-called inconsistencies in the Bible. But the argument is flawed.

It hides all the GROSS errors of Muhammad. For example, in ignorance, in his accusation against Christianity he included Mary in the Trinity. So in my view the Koran cannot be trusted with this kind of MAJOR errors.


For anyone seeking to see Islam in light of the biblical viewpoint: http://www.answering-islam.org

[Mikal]

theja

"It hides all the GROSS errors of Muhammad. For example, in ignorance, in his accusation against Christianity he included Mary in the Trinity. So in my view the Koran cannot be trusted with this kind of MAJOR errors."

what, when did muhammed included Mary in the Trinity. when did he said that, and if he said that,,many catholics for exampel in my country pray to Mary ,jesus mother, like if she was God.

God said in qoran:
171. O People of the Book(christians and jews)! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah(God), and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. qoran

we can see from this verse that God does not like christian doctrine trinity, you sould worshipp God only ,not jesus christ, Jesus was a massenger from God to people of Izrael. If you look in bible you can never find in bible that jesus said "i am God worship me", we muslims love Prophet Jesus as Prophet Muhammed, but we do not worship any of them, we worship only One God, God who creted Jesus and Muahmmed.

Jesus said:

John 5:37: And the Father himself, which sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard His voice at anytime, nor seen His shape.
.John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


10- Do you know Jesus never claimed divinity?

"I do nothing of myself." (John 8:28) "My father is greater than I." (John 14:28) "The Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)

11- Do you know Jesus is not the son of God?

Matthew 16:27-28: For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Luke 3:38: Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Luke 22:48: But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss.
Romans 8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Jesus' claims to divinity:

He declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31). In Jewish theology the judgment of the world was a distinctively Divine, and not a Messianic, prerogative.
In the parable of the wicked husbandmen, He describes Himself as the son of the householder, while the Prophets, one and all, are represented as the servants (Matthew 21:33 sqq.).
He is the Lord of Angels, who execute His command (Matthew 24:31).
He approves the confession of Peter when he recognizes Him, not as Messias -- a step long since taken by all the Apostles -- but explicitly as the Son of God: and He declares the knowledge due to a special revelation from the Father (Matthew 16:16-17).
Finally, before Caiphas He not merely declares Himself to be the Messias, but in reply to a second and distinct question affirms His claim to be the Son of God. He is instantly declared by the high priest to be guilty of blasphemy, an offense which could not have been attached to the claim to be simply the Messias (Luke 22:66-71).

St. John's testimony is yet more explicit than that of the Synoptists. He expressly asserts that the very purpose of his Gospel is to establish the Divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31). In the prologue he identifies Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18). The immanence of the Son in the Father and of the Father in the Son is declared in Christ's words to St. Philip: "Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (14:10), and in other passages no less explicit (14:7; 16:15; 17:21). The oneness of Their power and Their action is affirmed: "Whatever he [the Father] does, the Son also does in like manner" (5:19, cf. 10:38); and to the Son no less than to the Father belongs the Divine attribute of conferring life on whom He will (5:21). In 10:29, Christ expressly teaches His unity of essence with the Father: "That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all . . . I and the Father are one." The words, "That which my Father hath given me," can, having regard to the context, have no other meaning than the Divine Name, possessed in its fullness by the Son as by the Father.

Rationalist critics lay great stress upon the text: "The Father is greater than I" (14:28). They argue that this suffices to establish that the author of the Gospel held subordinationist views, and they expound in this sense certain texts in which the Son declares His dependence on the Father (5:19; 8:28). In point of fact the doctrine of the Incarnation involves that, in regard of His Human Nature, the Son should be less than the Father. No argument against Catholic doctrine can, therefore, be drawn from this text. So too, the passages referring to the dependence of the Son upon the Father do but express what is essential to Trinitarian dogma, namely, that the Father is the supreme source from Whom the Divine Nature and perfections flow to the Son. (On the essential difference between St. John's doctrine as to the Person of Christ and the Logos doctrine of the Alexandrine Philo, to which many Rationalists have attempted to trace it, see LOGOS.)(New Advent)

You should notice that whenever Jesus speaks of the relationship between man and God, He always makes it clear that His realtionship with God is different and special.

Also, Catholics do not pray to Mary as if she were God. We pray with her (in communion with her), because she is transparent to her Son, and points to her Son, who is God.

[Mikal]

in my country catolics pray to holy mary, i dont know if catolic from scotland do that, whatever.

"Also, Catholics do not pray to Mary as if she were God. We pray with her (in communion with her), because she is transparent to her Son, and points to her Son, who is God."

Look at this carefully what i going to say to you now:
you say that Jesus is God, "and points to her Son, who is God", ok now, if we say that jesus is God who is his Fther is He God too, if he is, then christianity is not monoteistic religion, you believe in two Gods, jesus God and father God, i hope you will understand me.

John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Here Jesus clearly states that there is distinction between him and God. In other words that Jesus himself has a God. Also Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Here Jesus Christ cries in loud voice calling his God.

Do you bow down on your face when you pray?

Matthew 26:39: And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed...
Also Joshua 5:15, 1 Kings 18:42, Numbers 20:6, Genesis 17:31 Corinthians 14:25: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

tell me know, if jesus is God why does he pray to another God, come on people use logic

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30). Also Jesus says, "...for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). If Jesus and God were the same then he would not have said what he has said in the above verses.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

You are reading selectively. Jesus accepts worship from Peter. Angels rebuke people who worship them. Jesus claims to be "the way and the truth and the life." A prophet would say that he knew the way and the truth and the life, but would not claim to be it himself. Jesus never claims divinity directly, but His indirect claims to divinity are very obvious. If He wasn't actually God, then He was a blasphemer. I don't see any room for middle ground.

In the doctrine of the Trinity, God the Father is the source of the Divine Nature, and from Him the perfections flow to the Son. In this way the Son is subordinate to the Father, though they are co-equal and co-eternal. I recommend you read the articles at newadvent.org on God, Three persons of and Christology.