Muslim Christian Dialogue very intresting

[Mikal]

"If He wasn't actually God, then He was a blasphemer. I don't see any room for middle ground. "

no he was not a blasphemer,no he was not a God, he was a prophet like moses, abhraham and muhammed.
Is this hard to believe.

If you say that jesus is God,

John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Here Jesus clearly states that there is distinction between him and God. In other words that Jesus himself has a God. Also Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Here Jesus Christ cries in loud voice calling his God.

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30). Also Jesus says, "...for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). If Jesus and God were the same then he would not have said what he has said in the above verses.

can you imagine God say this words "I can of mine own self do nothing", come on people, think

Matthew 26:39: And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed...
Also Joshua 5:15, 1 Kings 18:42, Numbers 20:6, Genesis 17:31 Corinthians 14:25: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

can you imagine a God pray to another God

we continue

if you say Jesus was son of God

The Doctrine of the Divine Son ship of Jesus
M. Is Jesus the Son of God?

C. Yes. Read in Matthew 3:17, when Jesus was baptized by John: "And lo a voice from heaven, saying" 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."'

M. You should not accept the word "son" literally, because the Bible also refers to many prophets and other people as sons and children of God. Read Exodus 4:22.

C. "And thou [Moses] shalt say unto Pharaoh: 'Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."'

M. Here is Jacob (Israel) His firstborn son. Read II Samuel 7:13-14 or I Chronicles 22:10.

C. "He [Solomon] shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be My son."

M. It will be confusing if you read Jeremiah 31:9: "I am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn." In Exodus 4:22 just now, Israel was called also called the firstborn. Who is the real firstborn: Israel or Ephraim? Even common people can be children of God. Read Deuteronomy 14:1.

C. "Ye are the children of the Lord your God."

M. Common people can also be called firstborn. Read Romans 8:29.

C. "For whom he did fore know, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren."

M. If all are firstborn, then what is Jesus?

C. He is the only begotten son of God.

M. Long before Jesus was born, God said to David (Psalms 2:7): "I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me [David]: 'Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee."' So David is also God's begotten son. The meaning of "Son of God" is not literal but metaphorical. It can be anyone who is beloved by God. Jesus also said that God is not only his Father but also your Father (Matthew 5:45, 48).

other prophets was also called son of God, Moses, Jacob and other prophets, you see

God informed us who jesus really was

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah(God) aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle/prophet of Allah...qoran

16. O people of the Book(christian and jews)! There hath come to you our Messenger(Muhammed), revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book(Qoran),-

[Theja]

Had Muhammad lived an exemplary life, Scholars and Christians would be giving serious study and consideration to his claims. Rape, loot, murders, and assassinations disqualified him to be a man of God.

Nice sayings. Lousy lifestyle.

[Mikal]

Theja

"Had Muhammad lived an exemplary life, Scholars and Christians would be giving serious study and consideration to his claims. Rape, loot, murders, and assassinations disqualified him to be a man of God. "



WHERE DID YOU GET THIS STAFF FROM

"Rape, loot, murders, and assassinations disqualified him to be a man of God. "


GIVE ME A PROOF, THAT SUPPORT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING

FIRST ISLAM IS FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3016/fastest.htm

SECOND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE CONVERT TO ISLAM, CHRISTIANS ,JEWS ,HINDUISTS, BUDDISTS, EVEN SATANIST

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/photo-gallery/
here you can see photos of jews who converted to islam

http://www.thetruereligion.org/converts.htm
you can read testimonies of those who converted to islam

http://thetruereligion.org/priests.htm
christian priests who converted to islam

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf.htm
yusuf estes former christian priest who converted to islam, you can see his photo on this site

http://www.islamfortoday.com/converts.htm
more, testimonies of those who converted to islam

[Mikal]

Theja

tell me why so many people, even christian priests, convert to islam, if islam is evil religion, why do they do that ?????????

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

People convert to Judaism, Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism, and Islam. That fact alone doesn't prove that any of them are the true.

The growth of Islam has more to do with population growth in the Muslim world than with conversions.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

Originally posted by Mikal
John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Here Jesus clearly states that there is distinction between him and God. In other words that Jesus himself has a God. Also Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Here Jesus Christ cries in loud voice calling his God.

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30). Also Jesus says, "...for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). If Jesus and God were the same then he would not have said what he has said in the above verses.

can you imagine God say this words "I can of mine own self do nothing", come on people, think

I'm going to have to repeat myself. In the doctrine of the Trinity, God the Father is the source of the Divine Nature, and from Him the perfections flow to the Son. In this way the Son is subordinate to the Father, though they are co-equal and co-eternal. The Son does the Father's will, and has authority because the Father grants it. The Son can do nothing of Himself.

Rationalist critics lay great stress upon the text: "The Father is greater than I" (14:28). They argue that this suffices to establish that the author of the Gospel held subordinationist views, and they expound in this sense certain texts in which the Son declares His dependence on the Father (5:19; 8:28). In point of fact the doctrine of the Incarnation involves that, in regard of His Human Nature, the Son should be less than the Father. No argument against Catholic doctrine can, therefore, be drawn from this text. So too, the passages referring to the dependence of the Son upon the Father do but express what is essential to Trinitarian dogma, namely, that the Father is the supreme source from Whom the Divine Nature and perfections flow to the Son.
(New Advent)

Jesus repeatedly claimed to be God.

Jesus many times claims to be someone quite special. In Mark 2:28, Jesus claims to be the Lord of the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10). He also claims to be greater than the Prophet Jonah (Matt 12:41), King Solomon (Matt 12:42) and even the Temple (Matt 12:6). According to Mark 2:1-12, Jesus claims authority to forgive sins and performs a miraculous cure to prove it. The scribes are angered because they believe that only God has the authority to forgive sins. These claims are quite extraordinary for someone who is "humble in heart." [Matt 11:29]

Jesus, while arguing with the scribes, makes an interesting statement about Himself and Abraham:

Jesus answered them: "I solemnly declare it: before Abraham came to be, I AM." At that they picked up rocks to throw at Jesus... [John 8:58-59; NAB]

Jesus claims to have existed also before Abraham - something impossible for a mere human. Moreover the statement sounds grammatically awkward due to tense disagreement. It would sound better if He had said "I WAS" instead of "I AM." The present tense implies Christ's eternal existence as God.

Even though Jesus does not explicitly call Himself "God", He does refer to Himself with a form of God's name. The full meaning of His statement in John 8:58 is best understood in connection with Exodus 3:14. In Exodus God reveals His name to Moses:

God replied, "I AM WHO AM." Then He added, "This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you." [Exodus 3:14; NAB]

God's name - YHWH (Yahweh) - translates as "I AM WHO AM" or simply "I AM." In John 8:24 & 58, Jesus is referring to Himself with God's name. The scribes understand Him as such and respond by throwing rocks at Him. They wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy - referring to Himself as God (John 5:18).

Other people in the Gospels also bear witness to His divinity. Even before His birth, He is referred to as Lord. Inspired by the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth greets the pregnant Mary:

"But who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" [Luke 1:43; NAB]

Elizabeth refers to Mary as "the mother of my Lord." Elsewhere in Luke 1, the title "Lord" refers to God, e.g. "an angel of the Lord" [Luke 1:11]. It should be noted that the name YHWH, being too sacred, could not be uttered, so the Hebrews said "Lord" instead. This passage in Luke suggests that Jesus was God while in the womb of Mary. Also when Jesus was an infant, the wise men worshipped Him according to Matthew 2:11. If the Christ Child were not divine, then this Gospel passage would present idolatry in a positive light. Later Jesus even allows people to worship-adore Him, as in John 9: 38. Finally after the Resurrection, Thomas greets Jesus as "My Lord and my God." [John 20:28; cf. Ps 35:23] Jesus confirms this greeting without any hesitation, objection or correction. As a teacher Jesus would be obliged to correct an error, especially a blasphemous error.
(The Divinity of Christ)

It should be clear that, unless Jesus was God, He was a blasphemer.

[Sharp_Kid]

Why does everyone insist on taking the words of their prefered holy books so literally?

Jesus was the son of God, in the same way as "we are all God's children". Geddit?

Allah is God. God is Allah. Whatever! If there is one true God, we will all have different names for Him depending on the origins of the languages we speak and the society and culture we have been born of.

Who cares if it's the Qur'an or the Bible?

The message! Some people seem to be missing the point of either book.

Anyway, the original link was very informative, but it did so appear that the Muslim dude was always on the defensive, as if it were he who had to prove himself.
I don't wholely subscribe to any religion so I find it slightly annoying that there is any bias towards any one over another when they are all (mostly) essentially the same.

The Bible and the Qur'an and pretty much any other religious text you want to think of summed up in a few sentences for me:

Be nice to your fellow man.
Make sure your fellow man knows that he too should be nice but don't make a meal of it if he doesn't get it.
Be grateful for what you have got and show gratitude by making the most of what you have been given.
Abide by this and you will be ok, but mess things up and you will pay, whether it's by way of divine retribution, judgement after death, punishment in the next life or bad karma.