Contradictions,inconsistencies and absurdities within the bible.

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by TomSawyer

"JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come
again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said,
I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

So if Jesus is one with his father how can his father be greater than him? " (Andy)


But you are forgetting that in Christianity Jesus is "fully human, fully Divine".

I don't accept this argument.You can't have it both ways -he is either a man or he is a God.The two statements above are very clearly contradictory.Jesus and his father cannot be one if,as Jesus states his father is greater than him.

This misunderstanding on your part is also shown by your recent exchange with Fear, in which you said that God is cruel in letting his son, Jesus, die on his behalf.

No,absolutely no misunderstanding on my part.I argued that the idea of a God who would sacrifice a son that is blameless of any sin is not compatible with the notion of an all loving God.I believe the doctrine of substitutionary atonement not only to be flawed but immoral.





The contradictions you bring up are only arguable at best and not really convincing.They tend to be minor things which in no way affect the reported sayings of Christ, upon which Christianity, proper, is based. And since Christianity is not a doctrine, 'contradictions' are technicalities which do not affect the religion as a whole. The Bible has no more 'contradictions' than Hegel or Frazer. On the contrary, the Bible offers the best explanation of evil: whereas Buddhism, naively, calls evil 'the absence of good' Christianity effectively sees evil as a driving force.

[b]Wrong!The contradictions which I have cited thus far (in due course I will be citing many more) are indisputable evidence that the bible contains flaws and contradictions.If it can be shown that the bible contains even minor flaws then the argument that it can be divinely inspired falls flat on its face,and I intend to show that it is riddled with flaws and contradictions from cover to cover.You can dismiss them as "technicalities" but if the bible is anything less than perfect then it cannot be argued that it contains a divine revelation.If it contains discrepancies how can we know with certainty that what we are reading are in fact the "reported sayings of Christ".Hegel,Frazer and Buddhism have no relevance to this particular issue."

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by HollyElise
Very interesting post, Andy!

I took several religious courses in college and I vaguely recall a course where among other things we discussed the authors of the bible and what was known and not known about them. I wish it were more clear in my memory. We used the Oxford Bible too which has extensive footnotes about translation irregularities.

This may sound like an illogical argument, but i'm not sure it follows that the Bible was not divinely inspired because it obviously contradicts and is flawed. To me, perfection is an overrated value and i think it is an assumption that if it flowed from God it would have to be perfect in the conventional sense. If God created man, well, WOOPS! That's the first goof-up. Ha ha.

But something i find as interesting is the apocrypha and the story of the gnostic gospels. Clearly, the Bible is a collection, and this is confirmed by historians. What was chosen for the collection appears to have been somewhat politically motivated.

Holly Elise,
A belief that the bible contains God's revelation to mankind is fundamental to Christianity.If it were nothing more than a collection of documents then a few contradictions would not matter however Christians believe that the bible reflects a well thought out plan by God.If this were so then there could be no flaws.To my mind the greatest problem for Christians is to explain away those passages which contradict the idea of an all loving God.For example in the book of Jeremiah it states "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy...
now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."So are we to believe that God sanctions killing innocent women and children?How does this square with a God whose "mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34),or with the statement in James 5:11 that "The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy."This is not a minor discrepancy or a "technicality".It is a fundamental contradiction and a just and merciful God could surely never sanction the murder of innocents.In my opening post I mentioned the contradiction betwen a text which extols the virtue of wisdom and one which states that wisdom can only bring grief and sorrow.Consider the following texts which deal with righteousness.

Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."


So what exactly are we to believe in?Is God vengeful or merciful?Is wisdom good or bad and will the righteous flourish or perisheth?I don't see how anyone can seriously adhere to the notion that the bible has come from God when it has such obvious flaws.If Christians actually took the time to read the bible objectively they could not possibly escape the conclusion that much of it is utterly absurd.I do accept however that much of it is true and has been backed up by archaeological evidence for example the flood story.I see the bible primarily as a historical record of the Israelites and such records were kept by all the various Bronze Age cultures which existed in the fertile crescent.It is one of history's great literary works but it is a construction of man,not God.

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by TomSawyer

As well, there are late sources in Buddhism which make claim to miracles and supernaturalism which tend to contradict the earlier and central Buddha. Strangely, you make no comment on them.


Contradictions in Buddhism aren't the issue here and your mention of this is only a vain attempt to deflect attention away from the issue in question which is the the contradictions and absurdities within Christian holy scripture.


On another note, someone here said that the people here like to say things like 'your ideas are unsupported, illogical, poorly put together, weak' and so on. In my earlier days, I was quite hostile. But you, Andy, were the first to cause offence to people, by calling them 'illogical, baseless, weak, etc.' Essentially, you were trying to sound professional. In reality, whenever you say 'your argument is groundless and unsupported' you really only mean 'I disagree with you.' Please, no more of your pretence here! You're not a lawyer or a professor, so stop pretending to be one.

Well firstly we can dispense with the idea that I have ever called anyone on this forum illogical,baseless or weak-it hasn't happened.What I have done is challenged the arguments of those individuals on this board-invariably christians-who would take diaboloical liberties by twisting words and using downright lies to bolster their creed.Also we can forget the rubbish about pretension or me trying to sound professional-again that's only an attempt to deflect attention away from the relevant issue.What I am is someone who believes that christianity is a fundamentally unenlightened system of belief which has no relevance to the modern world and if christians on this board use flawed arguments or falsehoods to defend their beliefs I will of course challenge those arguments.

[BatEl]

Well if u consider, that the sayings in the New Testament, were in Aramaic, ancient form of Hebrew, then translated in Greek, Latin, and finally English, there must be many misrepresentations! The Hebrew alafabet has only 22 letters, so any language, with more, will use more, & the original sayings, will not read true! I have just finished reading Harry Potter in Dutch,@ having read it in English first it was amazing that, so many different words, and expressions, were used! So unless u read Hebrew, u can never "know" the Old Testament, as well as a native Hebrew reader! and it follows, as in my Harry Potter experience, that the reading of the New Testement is also a Minefield! Peace & Light to all.

[BatEl]

sorry meant 2 type & after Dutch

[HollyElise]

Originally posted by emballantine
I have to say I do not understand how Christians can say not to take the bible literally when you are criticizing it, yet will quote it literally when they are using it to persecute others.

To not take it out of context when criticizing, yet use pieces of it out of context when criticizing others.

Good one!!!!!

*applause*

[HollyElise]

Originally posted by ANDY-J2

Holly Elise,
A belief that the bible contains God's revelation to mankind is fundamental to Christianity.

No argument here.

If it were nothing more than a collection of documents then a few contradictions would not matter however Christians believe that the bible reflects a well thought out plan by God.If this were so then there could be no flaws.

WHY? I absolutely fail to see how this follows.

Didn't you ever play "telephone" as a kid? You pass a message through people and you laugh to see how distorted it comes out at the other end.

God is perfect. Humans are flawed. If God speaks through humans can not flaws enter into it?

And why would something have to be perfect to be divinely inspired? Ask fine artists and musicians and many will tell you their work was divinely inspired, some will tell you that God worked through them. They don't for a moment, however, think that means their work is perfect, because they know that the instrument used to produce the work is flawed.

Inspiration is inspiration. It is not total control of the end product. I don't see you using this word the way it is defined in the dictionary.

So do you still think it has to follow that if the Bible was divinely inspired it could not contain flaws? If so, can you please tell me why?