Quantum Question

[Acey]

Following is a basic summary of Schroedinger's Cat theory: (No offense to cat people, I am one myself. It was his theory. lol)

Said cat is placed in a sealed box. Attached to the box is an apparatus containing a radioactive nucleus and a canister of poison gas. When the nucleus decays, it emits a particle that triggers the apparatus, which opens the canister and kills the cat.

There are several theories as for what reason Schroedinger proposed this, but I am going with the observer's universe theory. Simply put, it is the theory that nothing happens in this universe, unless it is observed. So in accordance with the cat in the box and the observer theory, the question was, is the cat really dead inside the box, or does that reality take shape only in the instant that the box is opened and the cat is observed deceased?

Several children's stories revolve around this question. Raggedy Ann and Andy comes to mind. When a child or parent was in the room the dolls were inanimate, but when the room was empty of people (or observers) the dolls came to life.

One day while thinking about this theory, the tale of Sleeping Beauty came to mind and I came up with a question of my own.

Anyway I would like to take this theory a step further and ask what people think of this. It would be an interesting albeit next to impossible experiment to perform and your answers might be based on whether you believe there are other sentient beings in this universe capable of observation. Maybe you can answer on both levels, basically one) we are the only consciouss beings in this universe and two) we are not.

The question is this: If all humans on this Earth were asleep simultaneously, and everything needs to be observed to change from one state to another, would we wake up?

This is strictly a theoretical question so if possible try and stay away from "logical" answers such as "we would eventually get hungry or have enough sleep and wake up"

Any answers are fine though. Just interested to see what you think.

My answer would be that if we are the only ones in this universe, we would remain asleep. If there are other sentient beings out there who came across this planet though, that might change. It took a kiss (yes, and Love) from an outsider to awaken Sleeping Beauty.

[Fear_nam_Beanntan]

I don't buy the theory that nothing happens unless it is observed. If that were true, how could the universe exist before life? And concrete, well supported science shows that it did exist quite a while before observers (at least ones with material bodies).

Now, from a theist perspective, I would say that God sees everything, therefore every event in the universe has at least one observer, and so the theory is moot. Also, with specific regards to the cat: the cat realizes that he is poisoned so the death must happen since the cat observes that he is dying.

Since I've been surrounded by intellectuals my whole life, I have realized that the brightest people often say the oddest things. Maybe Schroedinger just had an idea and wanted to share it. (That crazy Austrian sense of humor at work again! Reminds me of Arnold Shwartzenneger on CNN.)

[Acey]

Very good point concerning the cat being able to observe it's own death.

I am guessing Schroedinger used an animal though because he felt it would be up to a sentient being with a higher conciousness (such as humans or the like) to be able to validate the observation. But I am only guessing.

I would also be interested to hear from those who don't believe in a God and how they would answer this.

Would we wake up?

[ANDY-J2]

The findings of quantum physics forces us to re-examine the way in which we perceive the material universe.The Danish physicist Niels Bohr proposed the theory that "nothing exists which cannot be seen".To us this may seem far fetched yet experiments in laboratories seem to prove that matter does indeed react differently when it is observed.A photon of light for example will exhibit the characteristics of a wave when it is unobserved yet apparently exhibit the characteristics of a solid particle when it is observed.Therefore theoretically if no one is there to observe it matter will still exist but in an altered state.

[Acey]

AndyJ2 Interestingly enough, another theory for Schroedinger's proposal was that he was trying to prove that quantum mechanical theory was incomplete and could not be applied accurately to reality.

In this scenario, it is thought he was showing that the decaying nucleus and the cat were existing in a wave state. (Wave state being perceived as where all possible realities exist.) Simply that, inside the box, existed an undecayed nucleus and a living cat, as well as a decayed nucleus and a dead cat.

It was upon opening the box, subject to the observer's belief that the nucleus had decayed and the cat was dead, that the wave state changed to particle and the single reality of a dead cat.

Interesting similarity to what you found.

So what do you think of my other question. Do we wake up or remain asleep?

[ANDY-J2]

I think we would wake up.Even if everyone in the world were asleep simultaneously the material universe would not cease to exist however it's form would be fundamentally altered.The particles which make up the universe are fluid and it is our consciousness which shapes them into the form of material objects.However I don't believe that it is only human consciousness which exerts an influence on the material universe-there are also other factors which can change the form of matter,for example radiation.Countless millions of radio active particles are being released at any given moment in time and when these collide with matter they exert some influence on it however because of my study of Buddhist philosophy I believe that it is human consciousness which exerts the biggest influence upon the matter in the universe.

[Acey]

I agree that human conciousness (how we perceive things) has a direct bearing on how the material universe around us takes shape.

Our knowledge and the physical laws we have maintained (such as radiation upon matter) are products of our perception, our belief. However, if mankind was asleep simultaneously and in the dreamworld where these rules are easily bent or even not applicable, do you think the possibility might exist then?

If we are the sole observers, then if we were asleep, there would be no one to observe the effect of radiation or other material influencing factors. Without our observance might these effects cease to exist if they are based on us watching? Would the material world/universe even continue, since it models itself based on our conscious perception.

The rules as we know them only apply when we are awake. In today's world, you could say, "Well, they continue on when I am asleep." But that is because somewhere in this world someone is awake to see them in effect.

Of course, this is all based on the assumption that we are the only observers in the universe, which I can never believe.

It is an intriguing theory to me. I only wish there were a way to test it, without chloroforming the world. LOL!!