Scottish-Americans

[geoffnyc]

I'm an American lawyer, in my late 40s, living near New York. All my grandparents' lines have long been in USA. I knew one of my grandmothers to have been Scottish; lately, I found that though my dad has believed all his 77 years that his mom was of German descent, the family that became known by the surname Ivester in the USA (and includes the CEO of Coca-Cola) are Isbisters from Orkney (one Hugh Isbister having emigrated in 1775). So, I have always been proud of my Scots heritage, but it seems I've lots more of it than I thought!

Three observations or questions to which I'd welcome responses. First, I don't know that any ethnic group, or at least any of European origin and having substantial numbers in this country, has so thoroughly lost any sense of or interest in its heritage than the Scots.

Second, if one mentions "Scotland" to an American, once past kilts and bagpipes generally the American will sum up the country as this: lovely landscape, rotten climate, too much drinking, mostly depopulated, no industry, one nice college town, and didja see "Trainspotting"?

Have Scots, and in particular people in their 20s and 30s, any sense that there might be facets of Scottish life particularly to be proud of, or are all mostly content to be homogenized entirely in the European Union (as we Americans of Scots descent have practically forgotten that we are Scottish!)?

Finally, has romance gone so far down the tubes in Scotland as it has in America, or have young people today (as Bruce Springsteen put it) a dream of a love lasting and true?

I would be glad to have e-mail correspondence with any thoughtful sorts over there. As mentioned, my dad's Scottish forebears were Isbisters, Orcadians. My mother's Scots ancestors were Murdocks and Dicksons; I'm not sure where they were from.

Best regards.

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geoff in new york

[Willy]

Hi Geoff,
Interesting questions you pose.
Personally, I think Scotland is still very romantic, (but being a huge Springstein fan, I really liked the quote you cited)!

I think there is a more "covert" pride among Scottish-Americans. In other words, you do not see the huge celebrations associated with St. Patrick's Day or Cinco de Mayo but then regional Highland Games are held in the U.S. and it's amazing the culture they bring forth. Not only that, but I believe there is much more "reverence" for the ancestry in the Games as opposed to a "National" holiday.

It will be interesting to see the response to your questions from the "native" Scots on board.
(...and speaking of being on board), welcome Geoff!


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Di (aka ^..^ ~ Willy)




[This message has been edited by Willy (edited 30 November 1999).]

[Peteman]

3 brief answers from a local....

1 - As a Scot, in Scotland, I am overwhelmingly proud to be scottish. Can't speak for US Scots though.

2 - Stereotyping, you can't get away from it, but the whole tartan, kilts, whiskey, trainspotting is real, its what our culture is about. Trainspotting would have to be the "realest" bit.

3 - I think modern politics and society would try to push us into a European mould, but Scots in Scotland feel Scottish, and no media or government could take that away from us.

4 - (I can't count) Romance in Scotland? - well its in the publicity, and in the scenery, but in the blood? Yes. Scotland still preserves alot of the social conditioning that americans seem to have lost. Marriage is for life, and not just for christmas.

[Celto]

Hi Geoff,

I and my children have Scotish blood that flows through our veins. Even thought we live in America, those who are familiar with us have no question but that we are Scotish. They see it everywhere and we are proud of it.

On my son's grave stone on the front it has our family name, clan, and a Celtic Cross. On the back is the animal that represents our family name. We have never forgotten and never will!

Check out the billboard under clans and genealogy. I found a great site for the Orkney's of Scotland.

Welcome to Scotland.com

[This message has been edited by Celto (edited 30 November 1999).]

[alpin]

I am Scottish-American, (very scottish, on both sides of my families). My grandparents are very proud of our Scottish heritiage, as am I, but sadly, my mother and father are just "americans" really have no interest in it. So I didn't have the opportunity to learn my native culture as a child. I am learning it now, tho. And teaching it to my children.

The more I learn about Scotland, the more I see, "hey, that's me!" or "I do that!" heehee

I have no idea where I am going with this, except that I intended to say,

Hey, I am Scottish, live in America, but I am VERY PROUD of beigh Scottish! and I agree about america and marriage.... Love just isn't what it is suppose to be here in the USA.

When I read Peteman's post "Marriage is for life, and not just for christmas. " I just had to say, I agree, and for that alone, I wish I was in Scotland.

[dferg]

Peteman. Marriage is for life and not just for Christmas. I agree 100% (but then I was probably born in the wrong century!), but I think you are kidding yourself if you think that Scotland as a nation preserves this in its attitudes. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce, and in Dundee 51% of children are born to mothers who are not married to the fathers.

As to whether Scots are Romantics, I think the Celtic blood carries a romatic streak, but make a romantic see the world the way it is and he will soon start to display the kind of cynism Scotland has in bucketloads.

[LAURAIBRANDKAMP]

Hi Geof! This is my first time communicating on an electronic bulletin Board. I will disagree with your statement about how American Scotts feel. I am the only Spanish member of the New York Caledonian Club. A scottis organization that has many members both native Scotts and Americans of Scottish Background. When I attend the Ceilidhs, I am no longer in New York but in Scotland. I don't know where in New York are you located but our meeting place is at The Second Presbiterian Church 6 West 96th Street in Manhattan. I am also in my late forties, and joined the scottish club to learn about Scotland. I am also a Geology major and the Scottish geography is a geologist's paradise. Through my association with the New York Caledoninan club I have had the opportunity to attend Highland games in the tri-state area. This Sunday will be The Saint Andrew's day Kirking of the Tartans at 4.00pm at the Second Presbiterian Church. In January 26, we are holding our annual Burns Supper at the 7th Regiment armory, 70th street and Park Avenue. In other words, there are plenty of American scotts that honor your traditions and share a rich culture with us non scotts. As a matter of fact, through the Club there are Gaelic language lessons, bagpipe lessons, tradicional dancing lessons available to all. More over, I arranged for a bagpipe jam between our club and Casa Galicia (Galicinan, Spain, Club) and it was great.
Feel freet to contact The New York Caledonian Club, establishsed in the late 1800's at (212)662-1083, our website is http://www.nycaledonian.org