Is romance dead?

[HollyElise]

There has been another dramatic chapter in this story with his ex-girlfriend, but trust me, you don't want to hear it. Suffice it to say i spent part of last night and today trying to pull him out of his depression.

...so back to, "is romance dead?"

I've been visiting a free dating website and since posting my photo i'm getting more emails than i have time to answer. I should be excited, right? Pleased? Happy? Interested in someone or several?

.....no such luck. I don't like going to read my mail but i make myself do it anyway. Yesterday i got a marriage proposal from a stranger, and it's hard to guage whether it was a joke or a sincere proposal from a total looney, as i've gotten several looneys.

Remember we were talking about "A" behavior? ... you know, where you don't do anything about someone you like because you figure they can't possibly want the same thing? ??? ........Well today was David's birthday (the guy i STILL can't get out of my head!), and i wanted to call him, and i just chickened out. I tried and tried, and i just couldn't. Didn't know what i'd say after "happy birthday." So this evening i went to teach my class and get it out of my head, and for some strange reason i only had one student show up, but that was okay, because it was Sue, and she's good people, and i feel for her because she's going through a really nightmarish divorce and i know what that is like, and when i have only one or two students we can talk about this and that and have fun, wheras when i have 6 or more i'm running around the whole time needing to be in two or three places at once. But Sue just happens to be David's mom's best friend, and she happened to tell me she was invited to David's birthday party tonight at a fancy restaurant where it's being thrown, but she wanted to come see me instead because it is more relaxing and she needs that for her court date tomorrow.

So can i get it out of my head? NO. Visions of a happy gathering of family and friends dances in my brain, something i would have given much to be warmly invited to.... can we amputate my brain? Please?!! I feel so DUMB!

[TheLostOne]

I personally don't believe in romance as a rule. I don't think it is dead, but then I can't quite believe it exists as fantastically as it seems in books and movies. Life now days is so stressful. God forbid that a woman find a man who has enough self confidence and knows what he wants.
To me it seems almost as though the roles of the genders are reversing. Honestly, I would be an 'A' normally. I guess we all need a kick in the ass of our self esteems to get us going. I can be agressive, but only when I know it is safe. Normally my relationships with guys end up as being just friends because I don't want anything more with them. How hard is it to find a man that is going to make me want more? Apparently like you HollyElise it is really hard.
Every time I think 'Hey, this guy seems great. Maybe there could be something more here.' The guy ends up wanting me to be his mother...which is a gross freudian concept I won't go into....yuck
I am not sure about romance over all. I guess it is just like the Faery Folk you have to be in the right place at the right time to see it.

[JPH]

I'm all for romance! I'm in my 30-something and have had it with all the "men" out there that claim to be "men" they have LOST the romance in them! Most men are out for themselves and that's it - no compromise. I jotted a thread with Tartanterror2005 and I do feel like him to a point. Most guys I know are lazy, have no ambition - not even to get of the couch - zip in the romance department, not humorous, dead in the water boring - have no idea what or how to make conversation, etc. etc. etc. I can go on and on and on. I suppose that's why I choose to be single and have FUN. I dont want to HAVE to change anyone or change myself. Im ME and i'm tired of pretending to be what a guy wants me to be.Now if in this great big world I do find that ONE MAN that makes my toes curl - I would consider marriage and kids. But let's face it girls - too many men have only 3 things on their minds - CARS, SPORTS, SEX,! Not that there is anything wrong with those 3 BUT that's the furthest they tend to go. Afraid, insicure, incapable,- who knows. I know one thing - if it comes my way - it darn well better be someone who's not afraid of romance and fun!

{Green Eyed Texan}

[HollyElise]

Well, you're certainly not meeting the right guys for you, but i really don't think "all the "men"" as you put it, deserve the heavy critique you're laying on them.

The guys you are describing don't seem to be bad guys, it's just that you don't find them personally appealing or interesting, and that isn't a fault. You also condemned them for being insecure... and yet admitted you yourself used to pretend you were what they wanted you to be... and that is insecurity! Why is that to be forgiven in you but not in them?

I've learned a lot of guys like you describe are actually very romantic... but they are also very shy with their emotions and won't be romantic except to the one girl whom they think is their one and they can TRUST to be vulnerable around them. They certainly wouldn't trust anyone quick to judge. And you don't know but what the reason they aren't romantic with you is because they aren't so interested in you.

I think you should keep in mind, some women like sports. Some women like sitting on the couch together. Some women will get to know these men better than you. They will appreciate them for their value, fall in love, receive romance and love in return, and marry them. This has happened for generations. These guys you describe deserve as much respect as anyone else who behaves as a decent human being.

I'm sorry to come back at you hard like this, but I'm just so sick of gender bashing and i think it's high time we start identifying it as bad behavior and telling people to cut it out! It's simply immature and very rude. If you, or anyone, doesn't personally want to date 99% of the opposite sex... that's nothing more than normal... but when you bash them.....it's self-centered and disrespectful when they haven't done anything to deserve it except not appeal to YOU.

[PRgirl]

Ms Holly Elise,
You have so many interests and talents. And you obviously can hold a fine conversation. I find it hard to believe you are having a hard time finding someone to fall in love with.

Romance is not dead. Real love and passion is not dead. It never has been. I think the problem with finding the right man or woman are false expectations. People looking for partners in unrealistic ways. Expecting people to be perfect or something.

What is romance? And love? It all feels different at different stages of the relationship. The beginning is fun. You get to know each other, you put on your best behavior, etc. Then comes more knowledge and understanding. Revelation of defects and flaws and failures. Then comes the real test of love. You still love that person, and respect them and care deeply about them and find them beautiful with all their problems and shortcomings and defects and failures. And you accept that and don't try to change them. Just accept them. And love them despite their revealing their deepest vulnerabilities and human frailties to you. You still think they are the finest person you know.

Holly Elise---you made me think just how much I still adore my husband, after all these years. Love is in the details I think. It always is. In the small considerations. In the language he uses toward you. In the gentleness of his treatment and behaviors. In so many fine details. True intimacy is such a hard thing to find with another human being. It is very hard to find. But once it arrives and you allow that human vulnerability to surface and you accept and don't need to change the other person. What fire and passion there is in that!! True togetherness and when you walk through that door from work and say--Llegue. Estoy aqui.---You know they answer and they let you know "Yes, I know who you are." You are the love of my life.

So many people settle for less than true intimacy on an emotional level. They lack the courage to allow someone in deep enough emotionally, mentally and spiritually because they fear being hurt or rejected or failing at the relationship. Yet real love and real passion and real intimacy and real understanding and fulfillment on an emotional level requires and demands being emotionally brave. You just hope you are strong enough in your sense of self to be able to bounce back if that person you have trusted with your deepest secrets and deepest self disappoints you. If they are a person of character Holly Elise they will appreciate that gift you give them and return it in kind. With lots of love.

I think Holly Elise you got a lot to offer. Never sell yourself short. It is very important you choose a person of good character, and who has qualities that are notable towards not only you, but to many. What kind of a human being is this man or woman? Can they give of themselves freely, or are they too burdened by their own problems to give to anyone? For example alcoholics, drug addicts, people who hit or use violence when they are frustrated or angry or upset? Are they incapable of being responsible for their own actions? Do they never say they are sorry or apologize? Do they always have to be right? Do they value their career above their families? Find out. And make a wise decision. My usual advice to friends who are single is this one: Avoid the three strikers like the plague. No matter how charming, good looking and nice they might appear at first if they have one of the three strikes or more than one of the three strikes. If they have all three strikes---RUN and dont engage in any kind of relationship with that person. Strike ONE: alcoholics and or drug addicts of any kind. Strike TWO: Violent and or abusive people. Who hit and use abusive language such as (b i t c h, calling you a whore or anything like it). Strike THREE: People who never want to pay bills or pay their way and always want you to pay and take care of them like if you are their mother. Get an adult to share your life with. Not a dependent child. If the last job they had was five years ago and they are uninterested in doing anything with their life, they are not ready for an adult relationship.

I hope you don't mind my reply on this topic you introduced.

[HollyElise]

Not at all, PRgirl, and you said that so very eloquently! I could not agree with you more. Particularly what you said about intimacy... i think few people are wise enough to see as you do that intimacy is the reward that comes from having the courage to be vulnerable and committed to the other person.

You are so very lucky to have that kind of love.

And thank you for the complements.

[druid1616]

I'm just replying to JPH I think where you've been going wrong is trying to change for somone and then trying to change them another red flag was when you sai dyou were tired of pretending to be somone you weren't WHAT ARE YOU DOING CHICK you don't want somone who wants a fake you! If you just relax and be you aorund somone who you like as they are then watch how fast you find the kind of love yuour looking for. and althoughalot of guys are tool I disagree that they all are. pr girl good for you and holly elise we'll go after the..ill finishlater my prick computer teacher is on my nads. hes such a **** **** ******