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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 23rd December 2003, 22:36
Dennisse Dennisse is offline
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Torrey

I agree that someone else could have played the role Tom Cruise played. The story was that GOOD! I'll be seeing the LOTR movie this weekend myself So I'll have my review next week. Have a Merry Christmas.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 24th December 2003, 00:19
oron oron is offline
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Exclamation Media Manipulation

I saw LotR last night, and while I think on the whole it's a brilliant adaptation of an extraordinarily difficult book, I have to take issue with Mistress' judgment of the ending(s), which are without question the weakest and most annoying segments in the whole series.

The endings are a long, pointlessly sentimental string of scenes we could easily have done without. In fact, the first of them--when Frodo wakes up--should have been cut completely or at least to the bone; it serves no conceivable purpose. But to then drive its blatant sentimentality into the ground with repetition after repetition was unconscionable. I was ready to run from the theater half-way through and growling by the time we got back to the Shire.

Which was absolutely the worst mistake Jackson made in an otherwise remarkable series of films. The ending of the book is, to some degree, the point of the whole series and Jackson completely jettisoned it in favor of that endless chain of sentimental tripe. When I realized what he had done, I was in shock. It was as if Humphrey Bogart had pushed Ingrid Bergman and Paul Heinreid aside at the end of Casablanca and gotten on the plane alone, thumbing his nose at them. A disaster. A travesty. Why? Why? Why would he do that? Why would he mangle, destroy, putrify a magnificent achievement at the very last minute by deliberately violating Tolkien's message, contained in that marvelous coda when the Hobbits return home to find it shivering in the shadow of the greedy cloud they had just vanquished so far away?

There isn't language strong enough to express my disappointment and even disgust with Jackson's decision. There's no possible excuse for it. I will find it impossible to watch it again, and that's a shame.

Damn it! What made him do it?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 24th December 2003, 04:13
Mistress Mistress is offline
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Re: Media Manipulation

Well.. perhaps that’s just it Oron... I didn't read any of the LOTR books….. and maybe reading them, kind of changes how you may view the endings, no matter what ending they would have finished it with? I don’t know… but I do know that the DVD will have a lot of different endings and perhaps one of them will suit you... Now, seeing how even Sisco and Ebert.. didn't always agree... I wouldn't image that all will here, however taking "Issue" with my opinion seems to be a bit out of sorts.. for I did enjoy the ending very much, and thus based my review on my opinion of the movie. I think perhaps your being a bit harsh to the films. As you say, the books, from what I’ve been told, were extremely brilliant, and I’m sure making a movie from them was very difficult. There was so much to the story lines in all three films. There was major detail going on as well as effects.. and trying to keep all that together, Plus save Middle Earth.... sheeshhh must be difficult.. lmao..
But honestly, I actually enjoyed all three of the Movies.. and would in fact watch them over and over again.. lol…

I do not like being left hanging on issues that "I" find important in a film. I was curious as to weather or not Frodo was going to wake... I was also curious as to what happened with Aargon, etc... I felt that each thing that I wanted to see closure to.. was played out to what I felt appropriate...

So I did enjoy it.. I am curious to see the other different endings.. but certainly.. nothing made me fell as if I needed to run screaming from the theater... lol..

Hope that you find a more suitable ending once the DVD comes out.

~ Mistress ~
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 29th December 2003, 13:01
Mistress Mistress is offline
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[i]Ok....

Since last week I've seen a few movies... so Ok.. here we go...

Seabiscuit Totally fantastic... I Loved it! I didn't think that a movie based on Horse Racing would interest me, but there was so much more to the story that intrigued me as I was watching it. I started out thinking I was not going to enjoy it... and in truth, it turned out that I loved the movie.. It was moving, inspirational and put together extremely well. Much longer then I imaged too. The movie is based on a book.. I am not sure if it is a true story, but it could very well be. I have heard the book too was fantastic. The movie was about Horse Racing.. but in truth it really was not about horse racing at all. The message that was coming across to me was much deeper and so-real. It was basically about never giving up, never judging a person without giving them a chance and never forget that everyone makes mistakes in life and everyone deserves a second chance. I totally recommend this movie. This to me was the kind of movie that I can relate to..

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ermmm... a bit far fetched for me... but in the same respect entertaining. If all a movie is to do is be entertaining, then I say give it a go. I was a bit disappointed, however, it was not that bad. I also understood the story line to the movie, to a point.. but that too was like.. eh? lol.. I don’t know, but to me it was just all a bit hard to watch.

Charlie's Angels 2 lmao.. well ok.. far fetched? understatement.... lmao.. It was way out there... If you enjoy watching women kick arse,.. then you'll like this movie.. I seen the first one and didn't think it was that bad.. but they should have stopped there... Entertainment, or perhaps passing some time, is all this movie is good for. The story line was, in my opinion, ridiculous, and the effects were beyond even unbelievable.. If that is even possible. he he he... What I did find amazing was the cast of Actors/Actresses that appeared in this Movie. You had Pink, Demi Moore, the dude from Jackass, an extremely small part from Bruce Willis, of course the beloved "Angels", Matt LaBlanc from friends, etc.. there are more that I recognized, I just can not remember all their names. The Music was pretty good.. I bet the soundtrack will do better in sales then the movie.. lol.. This was certainly not a "go to the movies" flick.. but if you’re bored.. well it will pass the time.

Ok.. there was two more.. and honestly, it has escaped me at the moment.. thus they must not have made an impression on me.. lol.. If I remember them, I will come back...

Hope you all have enjoyed your Holiday so far...

~ Mistress ~

Ok.. Im back... yeah instead of a new post.. just adding here... I finally remembered one other movie..

Santa Claus 2 It was cute... a good holiday movie.. I enjoyed this one as well.. but I think, like usual.. lol.. they should have stoped with the first one. The story behind this one was cute, but they could have just added the Mrs. Claus into the first one. hehehe.. But I liked it..

Ok thats it for now...

~ Mistress ~

[Edited by Mistress on 29th December 2003 at 22:08]
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2003, 13:15
Talon Talon is offline
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hello all again..

well this week I have seen...

KillBill.. and i thought it was great.. plenty of blood and severing of limbs..my version was obviously pirated in a japanese cinema..and it was weird hearing the auditorium laughing away especially at the part where she goes to get the sword made so she can kill lucy lui... sheesh the audience was going nuts..lol.. but all in all i thought it was great and it is what I had heard..very very blood sprayingly gruesome..yaaay..I will give it an A-

Return of the King.. other than the ending just being rather a waste of time and energy it was very good..and finally it is nice to see it all mapped out on film..I am aware that next november the trilogy specail box set will be coming out and it will have an extra 5 hrs of footage above and beyond what the special 4 disc sets have at present.. thou I would like to point out also to oron that we are all here to give our views on what we personally think of individual films and in part I agree with you about the endings..but.."to take issue with Mistress' judgment of the ending(s)" is hardly in the spirit of mutual respect..afterall she did not make them and she is entitled to her opinion every bit as much as you..and if your asking me my opinion on why he did it i would think that its obvious... people prefer sentimental happy endings and probably only something like 5%(if that) of the viewers of the series have ever read the book.. how many books have you read that have been mirrored exactly on film.. there are always things left out...i hated what they did to all the hannibal lector novels... In this instance it is a shame that they needed there big holywood..peace and unity type ending.. but with such a fantastic job done in so many other areas..though I am sure i would rather have it that not...A+

the original Italian job... brilliant.. loved the ending ..caine was superb...A

and it was a while ago but charlies angels2:full throttle was painfull in all ways apart from the eye candy.. how can so many decent actors/actresses make such a totally bad movie.. how can an editor make such fatal errors with continuity...sheesh...i give it a Z
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2003, 21:40
oron oron is offline
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Mistress:"Now, seeing how even Sisco and Ebert.. didn't always agree... I wouldn't image that all will here, however taking 'Issue' with my opinion seems to be a bit out of sorts..."

Talon:"thou I would like to point out also to oron that we are all here to give our views on what we personally think of individual films and in part I agree with you about the endings..but.."to take issue with Mistress' judgment of the ending(s)" is hardly in the spirit of mutual respect..afterall she did not make them and she is entitled to her opinion every bit as much as you.."

Who said she wasn't? We're getting a mite touchy here, aren't we? "To take issue with" is merely another phrase meaning "to disagree with"; why the over-reaction? Is it now impolite to disagree? disrepectful to respond? Is this a place where all opinions or insights must exist in a vacuum free from dissent lest someone's feelings get hurt? If so, then it is also a place that will be devoid of the light that comes from open discussion and clashing views. If you're suggesting that it isn't possible to disagree respectfully, then I take issue with that suggestion.

I used "to take issue with" precisely because I wasn't disagreeing with her feelings but with the "issue" of inappropriate movie endings, a bugaboo in Hollywood that has spoiled or ruined hundreds of good films and has been responsible for many good films never being made at all. The Hollywood hunger for a "happy ending", no matter how inappropriate to the story or characters, has prevented both itself and its audience from growing up, infecting the industry to the point where Jackson, without apparent pressure from the home office, on his own dumped a meaningful ending in favor of a meaningless one. Is that not something one should "take issue with"?

Mistress' opinion is understandable since she hasn't read the book and is therefore unaware of the alternative. I would suggest to her--and to anyone else who hasn't read it--that it is worth their time to pick up RotK and read that ending before they accept Jackson's decision uncritically. We are allowing ourselves to be too easily manipulated by forces who violate even the simplest of truths in the name of "feel-good" endings that may increase their take at the BO even as they destroy the point of the film. Every year it gets harder to make a serious film and more impossible to find a distributor for that film unless a "happy ending" is grafted onto it. Script-readers are now instructed to read the endings of the scripts submitted before they read the body and to junk them if the ending is a "downer" regardless of the merits of the rest of the script.

I have nothing against happy endings where they are appropriate--comedies, romances, and mindless action/thrillers to name the three biggest categories--but when they are forced on films where they don't belong, especially on that rare animal "the film that actually has something real to say", they should be ruthlessly criticized. In this case, Jackson's mission--his words, not mine--was to bring to the screen an adaptation of these books that did justice to them, was honest to their characters and the meaning of the story, and that did not compromise in order to score easy cinematic points. And he, remarkably and against all odds, achieved that goal only to throw it away at the last minute in an unnecessary (and perhaps unconscious) genuflection to the Hollywood mania for sappy endings. The whole point to my "taking issue" with Mistress' statement was that she and everyone else who hasn't read the book was deprived of a stronger ending for no good reason. It was a very bad reason, and Talon stated it succinctly:
Quote:
...if your asking me my opinion on why he did it i would think that its obvious... people prefer sentimental happy endings and probably only something like 5%(if that) of the viewers of the series have ever read the book.
I think your figure is way low (half would be nearer the mark; at least in the US the books have sold tens of millions of copies and were still selling briskly well before the films were made), but even if you're right, that's all the more reason for Jackson to present this classic responsibly. Had the rest of the series been an outright bowdlerization (as was, for instance, the execrable Scarlet Letter that was done a few years ago with Demi Moore and Gary Oldman), I wouldn't even have bothered commenting on Jackson's decision. But it wasn't. It was reasonably faithful to the original and brought the core of LotR to the screen with respect and accuracy enough to satisfy readers and still make the experience what it should be for non-readers. That's what makes the cheap ending so unacceptable--at the last possible second, Jackson gutted his own "mission" to do justice to the meaning of the story. When he takes us back to a Shire apparently untouched by the evil to its south, he is being dishonest, for the first time in the series, both to the books and to us.

Isn't that worth criticizing?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 30th December 2003, 21:58
Mistress Mistress is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Talon
hello all again..

well this week I have seen...

KillBill.. and i thought it was great.. plenty of blood and severing of limbs..my version was obviously pirated in a japanese cinema..and it was weird hearing the auditorium laughing away especially at the part where she goes to get the sword made so she can kill lucy lui... sheesh the audience was going nuts..lol.. but all in all i thought it was great and it is what I had heard..very very blood sprayingly gruesome..yaaay..I will give it an A-

Hi Talon

Well I've not seen Kill Bill.. and based on your discription.. lol.. I'm not sure I want to now.. hehehe.. It sounds pretty gruesome.. lol.. But I take it that you like that! I do however like Lucy Lui.. so perhaps someday


Quote:
Return of the King.. other than the ending just being rather a waste of time and energy it was very good..and finally it is nice to see it all mapped out on film..I am aware that next november the trilogy specail box set will be coming out and it will have an extra 5 hrs of footage above and beyond what the special 4 disc sets have at present.. thou I would like to point out also to oron that we are all here to give our views on what we personally think of individual films and in part I agree with you about the endings..but.."to take issue with Mistress' judgment of the ending(s)" is hardly in the spirit of mutual respect..afterall she did not make them and she is entitled to her opinion every bit as much as you..and if your asking me my opinion on why he did it i would think that its obvious... people prefer sentimental happy endings and probably only something like 5%(if that) of the viewers of the series have ever read the book.. how many books have you read that have been mirrored exactly on film.. there are always things left out...i hated what they did to all the hannibal lector novels... In this instance it is a shame that they needed there big holywood..peace and unity type ending.. but with such a fantastic job done in so many other areas..though I am sure i would rather have it that not...A+
[/i]Well I am glad that you enjoyed the movie as well.. It would seem all the people I've spoken to Loved it. I am not too sure about the books ending, and honestly.. I still don't think it would change my mind. Have you read the books yourself?[/i]

Quote:
the original Italian job... brilliant.. loved the ending ..caine was superb...A
I've not seen the Original version.. but I do remember a friend telling me of it Perhaps I will rent that one too. Have you seen the 2003 Version? I am curious to know if you think they are that much different...

Quote:
and it was a while ago but charlies angels2:full throttle was painfull in all ways apart from the eye candy.. how can so many decent actors/actresses make such a totally bad movie.. how can an editor make such fatal errors with continuity...sheesh...i give it a Z
Holy Cow.. AGREED AGREED.. lmao... Man was I disappointed.. lol...

~ Mistress ~


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