do we need gaelic

[Daibhidh_Albannach]

"The problem I have is that Scots,the true and proper language of the Scottish people"

Andy, I've rarely read so much rubbish as the stuff your writing here.

Nevertheless, democracy allows you your point of view. Just a pity it wasn't based on fact.

[ANDY-J]

Originally posted by ERINGOBRAUGH
Hey Andy J.,
I am once again making a public statement that I don't like you and don't agree with you.
Slan.,Joe

P.S._Scottaidh-keep up the faith-Long Live the Gael!

(This post has been edited by the Moderator because personal abuse is not acceptable on this forum.)

[Edited by Neil_Caple on 21st November 2001 at 22:02]

Hey ERINGOBRAUGH,
Your hostility towards me slightly mystifies me.The feeling certainly isn't mutual as I can truthfully say I don't give a flying f*ck about you or your opinions.

Slan -Andra.

[ANDY-J]

Originally posted by Daibhidh_Albannach
"The problem I have is that Scots,the true and proper language of the Scottish people"

Andy, I've rarely read so much rubbish as the stuff your writing here.

Nevertheless, democracy allows you your point of view. Just a pity it wasn't based on fact.

Well I'm afraid you'll need to elaborate on this as what I've said is almost factual although if I had said 99% of the Scottish people I would have been entirely factual.Democracy also allows you your point of view and I'd be happy to hear your opinion on the matter.

[Daibhidh_Albannach]

Originally posted by ANDY-J

Well I'm afraid you'll need to elaborate on this as what I've said is almost factual although if I had said 99% of the Scottish people I would have been entirely factual.Democracy also allows you your point of view and I'd be happy to hear your opinion on the matter. [/b]

I have little interest in trying to edit a closed book.

No doubt someone's proud of you - regardless of how sad and narrow-minded you are.

Give my regards to Tony.

[olganicheallaigh]

[quote]Originally posted by colinthethird
[b]What else I'd love to learn Gaelic but there is just one problem. I've got know-one to speak to. I refuse to learn Irish Gaelic too. And when I was learning Esperanto there was nobody to speak to me. The same with Gael.

Colinthethird, I am presuming you are Scottish? If so, in your like 'I refuse to learn Irish Gaelic too', does this mean that Scottish people have to learn Irish Gaelic? Now if I disagree with anything I disagree with that. Gaelic from Scotland is hard enough to learn without having to confuse the children of Scotland to learn a language they will definitely not use!

However, I think it is a valueable part of ones society to have their own language. I was forced to learn Irish Gaelic in school and didnt really like it as it was just so difficult. I , as did most of my school friends, managed French, German and even Japanese but not Gaelic.

I am a bit confused however. I have come across a few statements on this site that suggests that Scottish people and English people dont particularly like each other. Scottish people are passionate about their country and dont want is associated with England as it is a country in its own right. This I completely respect. However, my knowledge is that England did the same to Scotland as they did to Ireland. They (the English) spent alot of time and money on changing the culture and this included changing the language. So, if Scotland doesnt particularly like England I thought that would lead the Scottish to wanting their own language back. Something that England took away from them.

Also, I know these points dont apply to everyone but I do think that the majority of Scots would like their own identity. Would this not mean that by having their own language would help this?

I know when I am away and I want to say something to someone and I dont want anyone to understand me. Instead of whispering and instead of nudging and mumbling something I just say it in Gaelic (obviously if the person is from Ireland also). So it has it's assets too.

Anyway, just so you know - I am genuinely just asking questions here, I am not being smart or obnoxious. I hope no one takes anything I say in the wrong way. Apologies if I have insulted anyone, I sincerely dont mean to.

[ERINGOBRAUGH]

Olganicheallaigh,

Dia dhuit? I agree with your above post,.if the Scottish want to regain their "lost" heritage and self-worth they need to embrace the fact they are a Celtic people,.unlike their southern neighbors the English whom are Anglo-Saxon more or less.
The language issue is complex,.hell,.even in Ireland where Irish Gaelic is mandatory for school students,.it is not given much encouragement by the Irish govt.,.nor has the general public embraced our ancestral language to the extent it is spoken daily by a majority of people,.this is a shame.
I believe the language issue for Scotland is even more complex in that you have 2 different tribes of Celtic peoples inhabiting Scotland,.the lowland Scot and the Highlander,.the lowlander being more like the English than the Highlanders,.and not so interested in speaking or saving Gaelic in Scotland,.since many of them speak a dialect of English apparently called "Scots".
Add to this the "English" factor.,yes,.those southern neighbors whom tried to wipe out our language and surplant English in its' place. Their tried and true way of operating being "divide and conquer",.pitting the lowlanders against the Highlander population in Scotland and ensuring constant agitation between the two (reminds me of the Scottish tune Loch Lomond.,you take the high-road and I'll take the low road.....)
Until the Scottish people can unite under one true "identity",.they will never know their true worth and therefor will not succeed beyond being nothing more than a "crown colony" to England,.a sort of amusement park,.nature preserve for the wealthy English tourists (as well as those from the rest of Europe)
To try to sweep under the rug their very heritage,language and history to be more in tune with the English will not give the Scottish what they most long for,.
an independent Scotland and a Scottish people whom have their "own identity".
Gaelic (language) is an important part of re-instilling or in Gaelics' case , since its' demise over the centuries.,
a matter of rebirth of the Scottish people. It cannot be accomplished otherwise,.the Scottish "must" make up their mind regarding the language issue,.even before they consider independence,.since reclaiming their ancestral tongue will in itself bring about Scottish independence in so many ways,.politically.,it will simply fall into place!
Ones' language is the window to ones' soul! The English knew this when they entered Scotland and its' about time the Scottish realized this as well.
Regarding the fact Gaelic is "considered" by some to be an old language not relevant to today,.I say look to Isreal whom not only brought about the "resurrection" of the Hebrew language (it was a dead language you know!).,but the Isrealis were able to encourage its' use to such an extent that it is the first language of Isreal.,and millions of immigrants from Russia,Eastern Europe,etc.,whom spoke many different languages when they arrived in Isreal, are now fluent in Hebrew. If they can do it,.so can the many Celtic/Gaelic people! Keep the faith Gaels!

Slan.,Joe

[olganicheallaigh]

Dia is Muire Duit Eringobraugh,

Thank God someone didnt take me up wrong and think I was being ignorant. I have had that a bit on this site since I joined!

By any chance are you Irish? Or is it from Scotland you are from?

Again I agree. To be 100% passionate about something, I feel you must go all the way. Not only have your own government, or land mass etc. but to also have your own language.

I am attending Irish lessons at the moment. There is a Scottish man in the class also and although he is lost alot of the time, even the teacher says he has a beautiful way of pronouncing the words. They just roll off his tongue. Irish people living in the East (in Dublin anyway) have a neutral accent in comparison to the West. For the rest of the class it takes alot of effort to just pronounce one word the way it should be pronounced. I think the Scottish have a head start when it comes to that.

In Ireland now the language is being promoted. We have both an Irish (Gaelic) station on Television and Radio. There are clubs, cafes, librarys and lots more schools now than ever before where Irish (Gaelic) is spoken. Even in Dublin, where only a very small percentage of Irish is spoken, has an up and coming gaeltacht area (Gaelic speaking area).

The process is slow but we will get there.

You mentioned that in Scotland you have two different tribes. Both believing that their national language is different. This is true but in every country there are different strains of their national language.

In Ireland there are four different provinces. There is Ulster (not only the 6 counties in the North of Ireland but others too), Munster (south), Connacht (West) and Leinster (East). In each of these provinces a different Gaelic is spoken. In each province, Gaelic is spoken and taught in the way it is spoken there. Each dont expect the other province to learn it their way but respect how it is spoken.

I dont think people from the Highlanders should expect the Lowlanders to speak and save Gaelic but I also dont think Lowlanders should expect the Highlanders to allow it to die. I think if each area kept up their own personal view as to what language they consider to be national to the area they live in and to also respect (this is vital) that the other areas want to speak what language they consider to be the national language - everyone should do fine.

I just cant see Highlanders and Lowlanders ever agreeing as to which language is 'the' language without there being bitterness. So I think a compromise would be best and respect for the other half even better!

I never realised that High Road and Low Road song was about that. That is really interesting.

I do think however that in order to get out of the 'are you English' when you are away because we speak English (I presume Scottish people get that also) that your own language should be brought back. However if you dont mind being considered English then speaking English will suit.

You mention Isreal (something else I didnt know - gosh you are full of great facts!) but also in my Irish Classes (Irish is what Irish people call Gaelic) there are two girls from the country of Mask (my spelling is probably completely off). I know this is near Spain but is not considered by these people to be Spanish. These girls told me they have their own language (it might be a dialect, I dont know) and so as you say if the Irealis can do it, and as I say if the Mask people can do it - so too can Ireland and Scotland.

It is a long way off but I know Irish being spoken in Ireland is growing. Sure even the other day I was waiting in a queue to drain the last bit of money I had in my account out and two girls at about the age of 15/16 were standing in front of me speaking Irish. Fluently. Not like me - thinking of the next word and whether I put a seibhu or an uru etc. on it. A man answered his mobile on the train and spoke in Irish. I phoned a client in Galway one day from work and she answered in Irish. I was going to say something in Irish but thought better of it! I visited Donegal a few months ago and went to a park and everyone was speaking Irish. It is definitely growing - it is slow but it is definitely growing.

Slan go foill Joe,

Olga