Lowland Scots needs a new name

[wullie m]

Quite right Lachie, Scots is going the way of Gaelic/Irish, what we have now in the cities (and 80% of us live in the cities), is an accent plus some Scots words. Speaking "Some Gaelic" is down to about 1% of the population, it never survived in an urban environment. We won't know until after the census. A lot of real Gaels, brought up in a Gaelic environment, have popped their clogs in the last ten years. Students of the language, albeit from Engerland, are no substitute. Britain was the worlds first industrialised nation and "getting on" meant learning English. What's remarkable is that three hundred years after the Union the languages survive at all. But why we need some screwball English troll with a Heilan Complex to tell us how many beans make five, is something else! wullie.

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by wullie m

Quite right Lachie, Scots is going the way of Gaelic/Irish, what we have now in the cities (and 80% of us live in the cities), is an accent plus some Scots words. Speaking "Some Gaelic" is down to about 1% of the population, it never survived in an urban environment. We won't know until after the census. A lot of real Gaels, brought up in a Gaelic environment, have popped their clogs in the last ten years. Students of the language, albeit from Engerland, are no substitute. Britain was the worlds first industrialised nation and "getting on" meant learning English. What's remarkable is that three hundred years after the Union the languages survive at all. But why we need some screwball English troll with a Heilan Complex to tell us how many beans make five, is something else! wullie.

Gaelic is on the rise internationally. I know of a Gaeltacht in Germany and Gaelic learners in New Zealand, Canada and San Francisco. im also involved in a project to bring speakers and learners together and create new networks between them bith in Scotland and internatinally, though its at its early stages.

Furthermore, as a literary language it is expanding internationally. Iain F. macleoid's novel Ìmpereachd is very popular and in no way as parochial as many Scottish novels have tended to be in recent decades. He plays with language in a way that shows the dynamism of Gaelic and avboids the cliched language of the Lallans kailyard.

[wullie m]

And good luck to all of them!
The truth is that both Scots & Gaelic are agricultural languages which never survived the move to the city. Gaels & Irish flocked to Glasgow by the hundreds of thousands, it was either that or the colonies.
In the 1840s there were complaints from the Highland community, that the Irish had preference for work (labouring), the reason being that it was a poor Irishman with no English. There were cases on the south side of kids presenting for school with only Gaelic a hundred and fifty years ago, but in my time I've never heard of a case where Gaelic/Irish was passed on to the next generation, including my own. Speakers of Broad Scots ditto.
Getting bread on the table was what mattered. Knowing the Gaelic for a stairheid lavvy would be of no help in an emergency!
Gaelic only survived in a social sense in Glasgow, by repeated influx from the north (a trickle now) and the Highland Societies.

wullie.

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by wullie m

And good luck to all of them!
The truth is that both Scots & Gaelic are agricultural languages which never survived the move to the city. Gaels & Irish flocked to Glasgow by the hundreds of thousands, it was either that or the colonies.
In the 1840s there were complaints from the Highland community, that the Irish had preference for work (labouring), the reason being that it was a poor Irishman with no English. There were cases on the south side of kids presenting for school with only Gaelic a hundred and fifty years ago, but in my time I've never heard of a case where Gaelic/Irish was passed on to the next generation, including my own. Speakers of Broad Scots ditto.
Getting bread on the table was what mattered. Knowing the Gaelic for a stairheid lavvy would be of no help in an emergency!
Gaelic only survived in a social sense in Glasgow, by repeated influx from the north (a trickle now) and the Highland Societies.

wullie.

Gaelic was reintroduced into Glasgow by the Anglification of the Scottish mentality through language that took bread AWAY from the table and then privatised the table. Medieval Stirling was Gaelic speaking and a thriving wee toon for its day.

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by Lachlan09

No it doesn't mean you are American.

But to be honest, how many people in Scotland converse, write etc in Lallans aka Lowland Scots nowadays ? If someone started talking to me in the vernacular similar to Robert Burns' 18th Century poems, I would smile and gracefully make my exit. I imagine more people use Gaelic in Scotland under normal everyday circumstances than Lallans is used. I think Doric (if that means Aberdeen and North East) is used more than Lallans.

My point is, if we're talking about Lallans here, does it really matter what it's called ? The thing is, to me, Gaelic is a lot more "cool" than Lallans as a current living language.

Don't forget, what some think is Scots language is mainly slang and a broad accent.

I would agree on that, which is why I find the lazy and innacurate use of the term "Scots" not only offensive, seeing as Scots is Gaelic, but misleading and counter-productive. Lallans could be a useful language for helping pupils understand grammar for instance, if it were kept within its traditional definitions. In parts of the North east, Doric is still spoken and comparative English grammar classes would help sharpen focus on orthography immensely.Latin is still taught and helps with understanding of grammar and traditional Lallans and Gaelic could both help in this regards by giving structural comparisons to English. For instance, "the nou" probably comes from the Gaelic way of expressing "now" and has influenced both Lallans and Lallans influenced English. Literature from both languages could be added to the grammar to give it a context and this would necessitate a limiting of the current ridiculously wide and all to open-ended definition of Lallans.

I would also agree that Gaelic is a lot more cool

[wullie m]

A lot more cool and a lot more extinct! The problem here is that we have nutters such as yourself, who have probably never set foot in this country, spouting romantic tripe on a subject which you have learned as a hobby. Gaelic certainly appeals to romantically inclined overseas students.
Knowing the names of kitchen utensils in Gaelic , whilst indicative of the stage you're at with the language, Arabic ditto! just doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to saving Gaelic, if you fell under a bus tomorrow Gaelic, perilous as its state may be, would be none the worse! And what we call our languages is our business. wullie.

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by wullie m

A lot more cool and a lot more extinct! The problem here is that we have nutters such as yourself, who have probably never set foot in this country, spouting romantic tripe on a subject which you have learned as a hobby. Gaelic certainly appeals to romantically inclined overseas students.
Knowing the names of kitchen utensils in Gaelic , whilst indicative of the stage you're at with the language, Arabic ditto! just doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to saving Gaelic, if you fell under a bus tomorrow Gaelic, perilous as its state may be, would be none the worse! And what we call our languages is our business. wullie.

Utter nonsense. I read Gaelic every day from across the planet and its gained a new and unpredictable vehicle to bypass the prejudiced policies of the nineteenth century unionist Anglo-imperialists.

an nijda, itassil edduktoor/aTTabeeb! ana majrooH! fee ooTobees fawqanee al'aan!

an cuidich mi! tha mo chorp briste os cionn gum bheil bus orm!

tadrajiyyan

beag air bheag

bi sinn cho fileanta ri bàrd
sanakoonu ka faSeeH ma shaa3er

سنكون كفصيح ما شاعر