William Forbes Skene on the Picts

[SeamusAlba]

Taken from Skenes, A Celtic History of Scotland.
Are there, then, any historical grounds which would lead us, irrespectively of philological considerations, to consider the Picts as belonging either to the Welsh or to the Gaelic race? The only answer that can be made to this is that there is almost a concurrent testimony of the Celtic iinhabitants of Britain to the Picts having belonged to that branch of the race which the Welsh called Gwyddyl, and the Irish Gaedheal. Throughout the whole of the Welsh documents the Picts are usually denominated Gwyddyl Ffichti, while the Irish are simply termed Gwyddyl. Although this word Gwyddyl is generally used to designate a native of Ireland, and is so translated, this is to its modern usage only; and it is impossible to examine the older Welsh documents without seeing that it was originally the designation of the Gadhelic race wherever situated, and the Picts are thus clearly assigned to it. This is quite in accordance with what may be called the statement by the Picts themselves. The two races of Cymry or Brython and Gwyddyl are symbolised in the ethnologic family by the two brothers, Brittus and Albanus, from whom descend the Britanni and Albani; and the Pictish chronicle, which may be viewed as their national record, states that the Scots and the Picts were two branches of the Albani. The race of the Picts were not however, confined to Britain. They originally extended over the whole of the north of Ireland, and though eventually confined to the territory on the east of Ulster called Dalnaraidhe, or Dalriadia, they remained there as a separate people under the name of Cruithnigh till a comparitavely late period.
Down to the beginning of the seventh century they formed, with the Picts of Scotland, one nation; but during the whole period of their separate existence the Irish annals do not contain a hint that they spoke a different language from the rest of Ireland; and in the Irish ethnologic family they are made the descendants of Ir, one of the sons of Milesius, whose descent is derived from Gaethel Glas, the ‘eponymus’ of the Gaelic race.
It is true that Adamnan tells us that St.columba used an interpreter in his intercourse with the Northern Picts, whom he converted in the sixth century, but this is usually stated much too broadly. Adamnan dexribes Saint Columba as conversing freely with Brude, king of the Picts, with Broichan, his Magus or Druid, and with the king`s messengers, without the intervention of an interpreter. On two occasions only does he mention that an interpreter was required ; and on both occasions it is connected with his preaching the Word of Life.

Here, at the outset, we are met by the argument which is usually urged and popularly considered to be conculsive. It may be thus stated in the words of Mr.Isaac Taylor :- 'Inver and Aber are also useful test words in discriminating between the two branches of the Celts (the Cymric and the Gaelic) ..... If we draw a line across the map from a point a little south of Inverary to one a little north of Aberdeen, we shall find that (with very few exceptions) the Invers lie to the north of this line, and the abers to the south of it. This line nearly coincides with the present southern limit of the Gaelic tongue, and probably also with the ancient division between the Picts and the Scots'

This would be a plausible view if it were true, but unfortunately there is no such line of demarcation between the two words; and though it may be true that it would nearly coincide with the present southern limit of the Gaelic, it is historically false that it was the ancient division between the Picts and the Scots. when we examine , however, the real distribution of these words, we find it very different from the representation of it given either by Mr.Kemble or by Mr.Taylor. South of Mr.Taylors line there are in aberdeenshire thirteen Aber`s and twenty six Inver`s ; in forfarshire eight aber`s and eight Inver`s; in Perthshire nine Aber`s and eight Inver`s; and in Fifeshire four Aber`s and nine Inver`s. again, on the north side of this supposed line there are twelve Aber`s extending across to the westcoast, where they terminate with Abercrossan, now Applecross, in Ross-shire.In Argyllshire, Invers alone; in Inverness-shire and Ross-shire, Invers and Abers in the proportion of three to one and two to one;and on the south side of the supposed line, abers and Invers in about equal proportions. But the distribution south of the firths must not be overlooked. It has a material bearing on this question. If these words afford a test between Brythonis and Gadhelic, we might naturally expect to find as many abers in what was the Strathclyde kingdom as in Wales; but there are no Abers in the counties of Selkirk
Peebles, Ayr,Renfrew,Lanark,Stirling and dumbarton, occupied by the Damnonii; four Abers in dumfriesshire, and six in lothian, occupied by Selgovee and Ottadeni, and none in Galloway occupied by the Picts; and when we proceed farther south we find nothing but Abers in Wales, and no appearance of them in Cornwall. These words, therefore afford no test of dialectic difference, and do not possess those phonetic changes which woudl enable us to use them as a test. There were in fact three words used to express the position of rivers towards each other, or towards the sea - Aber, Inbher and Cumber or Cymmer, which were originally common to both branches of the Celtic language. They obviously come from the same root, 'Ber' and they do not show any phonetic differences. These words are severally retained in some dialects, and become obsolete in others. aber and Inver were both used by the southern Picts, though not quite in the same way, Inver being generally at the mouth of a river, Aber at the ford usually some distance from the mouth. Aber has become almost obsolete in cornwall, part of Strathclyde, and among the Northern Picts, where we can almost see the process by which it passes over into apple, or obair, in Scotland, and into apple in cornwall. In Ireland Inver seems undergoing a similiar process, being once very numerous, but now reduced to comparitively few names.
The same remarks apply to a group of generic terms which enter largely into the topography of these districts, and are popularly supposed to be peculiar to thye Welsh, but are in reality common to both dialects, such as Caer, Llan,strath,Tor,Glas,Eaglis and others.

[Auld Chiel]

The terms "Pict" and "Welsh" are simply the Roman and Anglo-Saxon words used to describe the Prytani or "Britons" - the native inhabitants of Prydain or the Isle of Britain. The Romans, who invaded Britain in the early years of the first century, occupied and gained control over the lower two thirds of the Isle of Britain, but never gained control over the northern third of the island, and fortified against the inhabitants of that region through the building of Hadrian's Wall. The Britons occupying the lower two-thirds of the island adapted to Roman rule and customs, while the Britons inhabiting the northern third of the island beyond Hadrian's wall maintained their own indigenous culture, which included the native practice of marking or tattooing the skin with blue dye extracted from the woad plant. hence the name Prytani (from the Brythonic word Pryd, meaning "to mark" or "draw", from which the term Briton is derived). Because the non-Romanised inhabitants living north of Hadrian's wall continued in this tribal practice of marking their skin, by the year 297 AD the Romans are on record as referring to these northern Britons as "Picti" meaning "marked" or "painted", from which the more modern word Pict is derived.

It was not until the Romans left Britain in the 400's AD that Anglo-Saxon mercenaries from Germany began to settle in Britain as hired soldiers to defend the southern Briton kingdoms from invasions by the Picts from northern Britain and by the Scots from Ireland that the term "Welsh" began to be used in reference to the Britons by the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, who referred to the native inhabitants of Britain as "Wealas" meaning "foreigners" - which is the origin of the terms Wales and Welsh, as well as Cornwall (the "horn" or "peninsula of the Welsh"), along with the surnames Welch, Walsh and Wallace. The southern Britons referred to themselves as the Cymru, which is the origin of British place names such as Cumbria and Cumberland, as well as Cambria (the Classical name for Wales)

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by Auld Chiel

The terms "Pict" and "Welsh" are simply the Roman and Anglo-Saxon words used to describe the Prytani or "Britons" - the native inhabitants of Prydain or the Isle of Britain. The Romans, who invaded Britain in the early years of the first century, occupied and gained control over the lower two thirds of the Isle of Britain, but never gained control over the northern third of the island, and fortified against the inhabitants of that region through the building of Hadrian's Wall. The Britons occupying the lower two-thirds of the island adapted to Roman rule and customs, while the Britons inhabiting the northern third of the island beyond Hadrian's wall maintained their own indigenous culture, which included the native practice of marking or tattooing the skin with blue dye extracted from the woad plant. hence the name Prytani (from the Brythonic word Pryd, meaning "to mark" or "draw", from which the term Briton is derived). Because the non-Romanised inhabitants living north of Hadrian's wall continued in this tribal practice of marking their skin, by the year 297 AD the Romans are on record as referring to these northern Britons as "Picti" meaning "marked" or "painted", from which the more modern word Pict is derived.

It was not until the Romans left Britain in the 400's AD that Anglo-Saxon mercenaries from Germany began to settle in Britain as hired soldiers to defend the southern Briton kingdoms from invasions by the Picts from northern Britain and by the Scots from Ireland that the term "Welsh" began to be used in reference to the Britons by the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, who referred to the native inhabitants of Britain as "Wealas" meaning "foreigners" - which is the origin of the terms Wales and Welsh, as well as Cornwall (the "horn" or "peninsula of the Welsh"), along with the surnames Welch, Walsh and Wallace. The southern Britons referred to themselves as the Cymru, which is the origin of British place names such as Cumbria and Cumberland, as well as Cambria (the Classical name for Wales)

That's the modern academic consensus. However Skene makes a convincing case for the Picts being Gael and Gaelic being a lot older than the coming of Christianity.

[Auld Chiel]

Originally Posted by SeamusAlba

That's the modern academic consensus. However Skene makes a convincing case for the Picts being Gael and Gaelic being a lot older than the coming of Christianity.

However in Gaelic the Picts are referred to as the Cruithne from the Gaelic word Cruth, meaning "marked" which is cognate with the Brythonic term Pryd "to mark" or "draw".

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by Auld Chiel

However in Gaelic the Picts are referred to as the Cruithne from the Gaelic word Cruth, meaning "marked" which is cognate with the Brythonic term Pryd "to mark" or "draw".

and in English Americans are referred to by a name that hides their shared language. The Welsh sources make no ethnic distinction between the Gaels of Alba and Ireland.


Down to the beginning of the seventh century they formed, with the Picts of Scotland, one nation; but during the whole period of their separate existence the Irish annals do not contain a hint that they spoke a different language from the rest of Ireland; and in the Irish ethnologic family they are made the descendants of Ir, one of the sons of Milesius, whose descent is derived from Gaethel Glas, the ‘eponymus’ of the Gaelic race.
It is true that Adamnan tells us that St.Columba used an interpreter in his intercourse with the Northern Picts, whom he converted in the sixth century, but this is usually stated much too broadly. Adamnan describes Saint Columba as conversing freely with Brude, king of the Picts, with Broichan, his Magus or Druid, and with the king`s messengers, without the intervention of an interpreter. On two occasions only does he mention that an interpreter was required ; and on both occasions it is connected with his preaching the Word of Life.

[Auld Chiel]

Originally Posted by SeamusAlba

and in English Americans are referred to by a name that hides their shared language. The Welsh sources make no ethnic distinction between the Gaels of Alba and Ireland.


Down to the beginning of the seventh century they formed, with the Picts of Scotland, one nation; but during the whole period of their separate existence the Irish annals do not contain a hint that they spoke a different language from the rest of Ireland; and in the Irish ethnologic family they are made the descendants of Ir, one of the sons of Milesius, whose descent is derived from Gaethel Glas, the ‘eponymus’ of the Gaelic race.
It is true that Adamnan tells us that St.Columba used an interpreter in his intercourse with the Northern Picts, whom he converted in the sixth century, but this is usually stated much too broadly. Adamnan describes Saint Columba as conversing freely with Brude, king of the Picts, with Broichan, his Magus or Druid, and with the king`s messengers, without the intervention of an interpreter. On two occasions only does he mention that an interpreter was required ; and on both occasions it is connected with his preaching the Word of Life.

What I think is quite possible is that in the pre-Roman period a group of Gallic Cimbri from the European continent crossed over and settled in Britain and these Cimbri were the basis of the adoption of the Cymric language (Brythonic) and culture by the indigenous Prytani or Britons. Caesar hints at this when he writes that the interior of Britain is inhabited by people who claim on the basis of tradition that they are indigenous and who live on milk and meat and wear skins, but the coastal areas of Britain are inhabited by a people who sow grain who crossed over from Belgium for war and pillage and stayed to cultivate the land. The Cimbri themselves were descendants of Cimmerian tribes from the Crimea along the Black Sea in Eastern Europe who migrated westward and settled in the Jutland Peninsula of present day Denmark until they were driven out by the Germanic Danes.

[SeamusAlba]

Originally Posted by Auld Chiel

What I think is quite possible is that in the pre-Roman period a group of Gallic Cimbri from the European continent crossed over and settled in Britain and these Cimbri were the basis of the adoption of the Cymric language (Brythonic) and culture by the indigenous Prytani or Britons. Caesar hints at this when he writes that the interior of Britain is inhabited by people who claim on the basis of tradition that they are indigenous and who live on milk and meat and wear skins, but the coastal areas of Britain are inhabited by a people who sow grain who crossed over from Belgium for war and pillage and stayed to cultivate the land. The Cimbri themselves were descendants of Cimmerian tribes from the Crimea along the Black Sea in Eastern Europe who migrated westward and settled in the Jutland Peninsula of present day Denmark until they were driven out by the Germanic Danes.

There was a Germanic tribe called the Cimri. The name could be pre germanic (like Bavarian, coming from the Celtic root for "cow: bo")

I was of the impression though that the word Cymric was a much later invention, from the Christian period, and never used to refer to anyone North of the Forth Clyde area (IE the Scots/Picts) its supposed to mean "our people" and James A Robertson argues that the ethnic difference only occured wth the Romanisation of the Frth Clyde area. Both he and Skene demonstrate the fluidity of the Celtic vocabulary, (like Cathair/caer even today) and leave the door open for the possibility that a form of Gaelic was spoken by the population of Coille Daone.