Scots Dialect : Where is it spoken ?

[Scottish_Republican]

Andy, my Anglo-Saxon is not great, but I have learnt to understand some of it, which I try to keep brushed up using my copy of Sweet's Primer.

"in reality it isn't a point of any particular significance given that the reference sources I'm using are from professional linguists and historians."

In other words, second hand. You can't do much of your own research, and you are handicapped by this (no personal offence).

"I would argue that it also had the same status in Lothian."

No, not at all - going by the placenames gives several zones. Gaidhlig placenames are most frequent in certain parts of the Lothians (I mean the modern counties), notably the west of West Lothian, north of East Lothian; some parts of western Peebleshire etc. These in turn get weaker when you cross the Lammermuir, and get to the Merse, and are weaker still yet once you get to the other side of the Cheviot, where there are little or none.

"But again you're trying to compare like with unlike."

Actually, they are quite like, hence I use them for comparison. They are a completely valid example of Brythonic speaking areas under Anglo-Saxon/English control.

"I'm using sources from professional linguists which really makes my my ignorance of Gaelic an irrelevance."

Yes, I am also using such sources, as well as my own research. But I don't get it all second hand, and have read both sides.

"Lindisfarne, Ros, Amble, Cambois, Glenwhelt, Glendue"

Of these names you say are "unrecognisable", I can get three, possibly four, just from sight. Better than none though, and if you wanted to look at them properly, you would have to go through the various historical forms. Two - Ros and Glendue could also be Brythonic - Rhos & Glyn Du in modern Welsh (although the latter is pronounced "glun dee")

[Kern]

''How good is your knowledge of the Celtic languages anyway? I know Gaelic, and can read a good deal of Welsh. I can read some Norse and Anglo-Saxon with a crib beside me. Which of these are you conversant with?''

Who cares? No one knows what these languages were. No one cares about these places like Bernicia etc.

I find it strange that you keep going on about words like Gaelic and Celtic and Anglo-Saxon.

The reason I have picked up on you is because you have the fixation.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT SCOTLAND WAS GAELIC.

And the Anglisch do talk shyte. So do you. Which makes me think you are not who you say you are.

[Croi Sasanach]

I think we have to remember that Annexed is a hostrical context probably means conquered. Just because an area was conquered early on (due to it's eastern location?) doesn't mean that it wasn't celtic speaking, or has no Celtic heritage.

[Kern]

Thank you for making us civil again Croi Sasanach. Just that these Irish sympathisers and trolls who have the agenda of making us all think we are Irish are a feckin downer.

[Croi Sasanach]

The whole argument about Scottish languages in the way all yous are presenting them are wrong anyway.

English is present because of invasion, as is Gaelic as is Brythonic etc etc and probably some languages we know nowt about from before then.

[ANDY-J3]

Originally posted by Scottish_Republican


"in reality it isn't a point of any particular significance given that the reference sources I'm using are from professional linguists and historians."

In other words, second hand. You can't do much of your own research, and you are handicapped by this (no personal offence).


Would you call Gibbon's decline and fall of the Roman empire a poor historical work? In fact he only used secondary sources- he never studied one original primary text so good history doesn't need to be founded only on primary sources. It's true that ideally one would prefer to only ever use primary sources to study history but there is such a wealth of good quality literature available from professional linguists and historians who specialise in the origin of place names that it isn't necessary to have an awareness of archaic languages.




Actually, they are quite like, hence I use them for comparison. They are a completely valid example of Brythonic speaking areas under Anglo-Saxon/English control.


I don't know how you can make a statement like that. Deira and Bernicia disappeared from the pages of history within the space of a couple of centuries while Cornwall and the Welsh marches remain to the present day. That in itself tells you that different dynamics are occuring in these locations. In the north of England you have full scale annexation of territory and either the exiling or absorption of native inhabitants- as occured with the Picts- as opposed to feudal dominion over Cornwall and parts of Wales by an Anglo-Norman ruling aristocracy who had no desire to impose their culture on the natives.

[Croi Sasanach]

About your last point.

And isn't it funny in more present times how those who were not forced into assimilation are the ones who speak ill of the "English" now ? while we in Bernicia are lumped into the 'blame' pile.

Utter bollocks, sell it to the innocent.