Scots Dialect : Where is it spoken ?

[Duthill]

Originally Posted by Kern

As for Alba.

The chalk cliffs , as seen from Gaul

I have come across this theory before .
It seems to one of the more credible ones on offer .



from Wikipedia ...
""The name is of Celtic origin, with an exact cognate in Welsh elfydd "earth, world" (in fact, the personal name Albiorix means 'world king' or 'king of the world'), from the Proto-Indo-European root that denotes both "white" and "mountain", but the Romans took it as connected with albus (white), in reference to the chalk "White Cliffs of Dover", and Alfred Holder's Alt-Keltischer Sprachschatz (1896) unhesitatingly translates it Weissland ("white-land"). The early writer (6th century BC) whose periplus was translated by Avienus at the end of the 4th century AD (see Massaliote Periplus) does not use the name Britannia; he speaks of nesos 'Iernon kai 'Albionon (island of the Ierni and the Albiones). So Pytheas of Massilia (4th century BC) speaks of Albion and 'Ierne. From the fact that there was a tribe called the Albiones on the north coast of Spain in Asturias, some scholars have placed Albion in that neighbourhood (see G. F. Unger, Rhein. Mus. xxxviii., 1883, pp. 156-196).""

Albion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Scottish_Republican]

Originally Posted by Kern

I don't think Gaelic was ever spoken across Scotland.

Then you should probably look at the placenames. It was certainly the language of all of Scotland north of the Forth and Clyde, and down in the South West, such as Galloway.

The origin of "Alba" is uncertain, and may not necessarily be related to the chalk cliffs. Some people think it is also related to mountains (nb "Alps") or even something to do with apples!

Originally Posted by Kern

Brythonic as a language? Who the f8k knows? Cornish and so on is just made up crap.

No, it's not. There are thousands upon thousands of words in manuscripts written in Cornish, by native speakers, and also ample evidence from placenames and dialect.

[aNonnyMoose]

There are sufficient clues in isolated place and river names (like the Esk) that it was also spoken in the Lothians, though displaced there earlier than in the remainder of Scotland.

Ewan Campbell makes some valid points about the Dalriadan community probably being indigenous, as opposed to imported from Ireland, due to the paucity of actual Irish artefacts found around Dunadd compared to locally-produced items (often utilising elements from as far afield as the Mediterranean).

And I agree with SR regarding the Kernow language, there are many proofs that it was at one time both indigenous and flourishing. As with so many other languages, Gaelic included, it has suffered through influxes of those who do not speak it as a native tongue and would prefer to see it die. Manx also springs to mind.

[Lianachan]

Originally Posted by Scottish_Republican

No, it's not. There are thousands upon thousands of words in manuscripts written in Cornish, by native speakers, and also ample evidence from placenames and dialect.

Not just Cornish, either - there's placename evidence of several Brythonic languages. In Scotland alone there's evidence of Cumbric, Pictish and "Old Welsh"/British in placenames.

[ANDY-J3]

The county of Clackmannan and the village of Slamannan are evidence of the Brythonic history of east central Scotland as they are derived from the Brythonic tribe Mannau Gododdin, but Pictish place names show that the Picts almost certainly spoke a Brythonic dialect so at one time that was the universal language throughout the whole of Scotland.

[ANDY-J3]

With regards to Gaelic placenames a factor that has to be considered is that Gaelic clerics were very much in demand and they were given patronage in the form of land by Scottish Kings and nobility so for that reason Gaelic placenames will be found all over Scotland even in areas that may not have had any long term Gaelic habitation.

[Lianachan]

Originally Posted by ANDY-J3

With regards to Gaelic placenames a factor that has to be considered is that Gaelic clerics were very much in demand and they were given patronage in the form of land by Scottish Kings and nobility so for that reason Gaelic placenames will be found all over Scotland even in areas that may not have had any long term Gaelic habitation.

Indeed. There are a lot of Gaelic placenames associated with the church, or saints, in areas where the language is generally not that well represented.