OT: Colonisation and language in Wales

[Scottish_Republican]

No welcome in hillsides
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk
Aug 8 2004. Lucy Ballinger, Wales on Sunday

THE graffiti reads "colonists out" and "Cymru not for sale".

And some road signs have English words blacked out.

In a nation which boasts a welcome in the hillsides, a minority of
nationalists are waging a campaign against 'incomers' moving into
North
Wales.

It's summer holiday season, the time of year when English tourists
pass
through our countryside and consider buying second homes.

Good for the local economy, some say - others fear it's killing our
culture
and driving up house prices at the expense of local first time buyers.

There's no talk of a return to the house-burning of the 1980s but
there is a
pro-active campaign of positive discrimination to promote the Welsh
language
and keep Welsh-speakers in the area.

Leading the way is Cymuned, the Welsh language pressure group, which
is
encouraging estate agents to boycott the internet when they advertise
properties for sale, so only local buyers see what's available.

Aran Jones, the group's chief executive, said: "Many estate agents
have
taken on our suggestions. What we are saying is not, do not sell out
of this
area, but how about making it available locally for the first three
months
to see if there is a market for it.

"We are not trying to keep anybody out but making sure that the local
community has a chance so it remains strong and healthy enough for
people to
move in and become a part of.

"We want the National Assembly to encourage all estate agents to sign
up, or
make it mandatory.

"There are local housing schemes where properties are built for only
local
people, but more needs to be done."

Estate agent Dafydd Hardy, from Porthmadog, offers the service at his
nine
branches across North Wales.

He said: "If clients do not want to advertise their properties
outside the
area, they can do so.

"We had discussions with Cymuned in order to try to help the local
market. A
minimal amount of people opt to do it for a period of a month or six
weeks.

"The sellers who opt for this want to sell to local people, not
necessarily
local people who want to speak Welsh. But we want people moving here
to
learn the language and appreciate the culture."

But on the ground, anti-English graffiti remains.

A local shopkeeper in Porthmadog, who did not want to be named, was
angered
by it, saying: "We rely on the English for business. It's just a few
silly
people who do this."

But singer Treflyn Lloyd-Jones, 58, a dad-of-four who has lived in
Porthmadog all his life, insisted the political spray painters are
trying to
save the Welsh language and culture.

"I wouldn't sell my house to anyone from outside the area, if they
were
Scottish, Irish or English. If someone offered me £20,000 more than
it was
worth I still wouldn't sell it," he said.

"If it carries on like it is now, all the Welsh speaking people will
be
living in council houses. People cannot afford to buy. Our children
haven't
got any hope of buying anywhere here.

"I did graffiti myself when I was younger. Every time I saw a sign in
English I would spray it. All the signs should be in Welsh and only
Welsh.

"If English speaking people coming into the area are willing to learn
the
language then fair enough. If I went to France to live I would have
to learn
French."

Englishman John Bull, 43, moved to Porthmadog 10 years ago. He agrees
the
problem is not with 'incomers' but people who don't want to become
part of
the community.

He said: "I haven't had any problems - you just have to be willing to
muck
in. The graffiti is jealousy from young people who can't afford to buy
houses."

Simon Simcox, senior partner at estate agents Bob Parry, believes
local
people want to conserve their communities by selling properties to
people
living close by.

He said: "Two years ago, we took an instruction to sell a house for
£10,000
less than it was worth to a young married couple with at least one
child who
lived within five miles of the property.

"The graffiti aims to put people off moving here because locals feel
threatened.

"Some English-speaking people are moving out of North East Wales to
England,
Spain or Greece because they do not feel welcome here. They are upset
by
anti-English feeling.

"It is happening quite a lot. The numbers are insignificant but
noticeable.

"Statistically speaking, the number of people who refuse to sell
their house
because of linguistic grouping is very small.

"Occasionally, we have requests to sell or let properties to a Welsh
speaking person if we can find someone suitable. The great majority of
people in the area are Welsh speaking anyway.

"The more contentious matter is that English people are not being made
welcome. I usually think that's a mistake and we are training our
staff to
be nice to everybody.

"This is more than a storm in a teacup in terms of the number of
people
objecting this strongly.

"But there is a fairly strong feeling for the maintenance of the Welsh
language.

"And that is the issue, not the reluctance to sell the houses to
English
people."

[heathen]

The welsh arent even welsh anymore they are completely anglized they are english.

[Scottish_Republican]

Some are. The media has provided a one sided view of the matter, not acknowledging that Welsh are being priced out, or that some of the people coming in not only *refuse* to learn Welsh, but are prejudiced against it (I've seen this first hand) and its speakers.

The same problem exists in some parts of Spain, France, Northern Italy, Cyprus etc, where large numbers of "Brits" have started moving. Many refuse to learn the languages of their adopted homes. I have an uncle in Spain who speaks fluent Spanish and Valenciano, but a lot of the other settlers there don't. As a result he has better relations with the locals.

[Steaphan]

The Welsh are far more Welsh than the Scots are Scottish actually. With 500 000 fluent in their national language and still quite a few older people who are not very fluent in English, compared to their Welsh mother tongue.

However, I often find it hard to decipher whether a person from South Wales is Welsh or English by their accent, but that's because so many English people have settled there that many Welsh people are of English origin - just like in Scotland.

English people once they've lived in Scotland or Wales for a while tend to have a habit of saying "I'm from such and such a place", when actually they are not.
I personally haven't lived in Dundee for 9 years now, but I am from Dundee as that is where I was born and brought up. I wouldn't say "I am from Glasgow" where I now live and likewise although I have strong highland connections, I wouldn't say I am "from the Highlands".

It becomes a bit more complicated though if you were born somewhere and moved at a young age to somewhere else!

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by Steaphan
The Welsh are far more Welsh than the Scots are Scottish actually.



That's debatable.The last census revealed that 20% of the population are English and they have been more integrated with England since the middle ages therefore their sense of national identity must surely be less strong than that of Scots.This was reflected in the percentages who voted in favour of devolution.A substantial majority of Scots voted in favour of a devolved parliament as opposed to a very small majority of Welsh people.

[Steaphan]

Well if 20% of the population are English, then I think it shows more that that particular immigrant group were what contributed to the smaller majority of "Welsh" people voting for devolution.

Culturally speaking the Welsh are far stronger than the Scots, with Welsh having official status throughout the United Kingdom, whereas Gaelic and Scots have none, even in their own country.

[ANDY-J2]

Originally posted by Steaphan
Well if 20% of the population are English, then I think it shows more that that particular immigrant group were what contributed to the smaller majority of "Welsh" people voting for devolution.

Culturally speaking the Welsh are far stronger than the Scots, with Welsh having official status throughout the United Kingdom, whereas Gaelic and Scots have none, even in their own country.

Well their culture doesn't seem to imbue them with a strong sense of national identity.Since devolution in 1997 the number of Scots wishing to be independent seems to have risen from 26% to 30% while in Wales it has fallen very slightly from 13% to 12% (in 2001).Just under a quarter of Welsh people would be happy to remain in the UK even if their assembly were removed as opposed to only 13% of Scots.That clearly indicates that Scots national identity is far stronger than that of the Welsh which suggests that maintaining a high proportion of native Welsh speakers does little to encourage a widespread sense of distinctiveness from the English.


http://www.devolution.ac.uk/briefing_paper_1.pdf