Terrorist supporters rally in San Francisco

[DistantCelt]

The last few posts were just your unsupported spew. You like to talk that is obvious and you like to spar in a juvenile way. Just make sure you realize without proof that that is all it is, a thread filler with no bones or meat to it. I am done here but it was important to point this out to you as you do it in all the threads and the bluster is annoying...and proves nothing at all. It is a waste of time for the reader and very immature.

The notion of claims and proofs seems to work backwards for you- *you* are the one who is claiming that universities are fertile recruiting grounds for terrorists. As such, it is *your* responsibility to substantiate the claims with facts and figures- something which you havn't done because facts and figures do not support your paranoid and anti-university perspective. I didnt make a claim- i refuted it with my personal involvement with universities-something which you lack and therefore, your anecdotal reference and opinions are irrelevant.
And I have supplied facts that are consistent with reality and my conclusion- out of millions of university students who graduate every year and several millions more who attend universities at any given time, you will, at best, find a dozen or two in the last 15 years that've associated with terrorism. As such, a couple of dozen individuals out of millions is insignificant grounds to brand universities as 'breeding grounds' for terrorists and a claim that cannot stand the test of authenticity. I mentioned that you'd be far better off looking for terrorist wannabes in your churches, halls, mosques and synagogues. Which, has a far far higher proportion of fanatical people than universities do.
As usual, you not only confuse the issue of where (or with whom) the burden of proof lies in a case and resort to anecdotal inferences and telling people, who are far better travelled and experienced in this world than you about your unfounded opinions. There are many here who know far more than I do about the ways of the world- but you are not one of them due to your profound lack of education and experience in travelling/living/appraising various different cultures and ways of life.
This is not meant as a diss but to point out facts to you that your notion of the world is quite different from the ground realities as personally experienced by people who have first hand experience.

[wild-in-tent]

The Universities are fertile grounds .....they were the biggest bunch of druggies in the 60's with the hippie fad. They now are not policing what is going on in their Muslim prayer rooms...those rooms should have a Western person who can be bondable, is SANE, who speaks Arabic, farsi etc....monitoring those rooms or they should not exist until they can be, if anything happens because of them then the University should be sued for allowing terrorists to carry out their plots using the campus. If they cannot be responsible about what they are doing and funding then they should not do or fund it. Simple as that.

I grew up in the 60's unlike you and seen what that trend did to future generations. They are fertile free thinking grounds period and it is no secret that many despots also got their starts there...including the one who started the Muslim brotherhood and those who put out their books and such for this movement or that....history is rife with movements and such began at universities....many are personally involved with universities and they rebuke your claims that it is not a problem. Papers have been written on it and submitted already in several countries and many many of them over the years.
Lol! Bush has travelled and so has Queen Elizabeth....the Saudi Princes do and all world movers and shakers and reporters etc......and they have their say too...which is just as valid and due to their age and experience and HANDS IN THE PIE circumstances, of all those travellers like you....well I might trust some of them possibly, but never your opinion lol!....I shall seek out the opinions of others older, wiser, more travelled who are involved in the scene....and show what a blowhard you can be. Bush has a Unie Education and has travelled more than you.....But you would discount them...and have ....but honestly they carry much more weight than you...yes, even President Bush does lol! So I wouldn't continue to use your outdated argument which you have beaten to death on this board if I were you....lol!
Cuz Bush beats you hands down in all those areas lol! I guess I should listen to him eh?

these too had Unie educations and travelled the world, living in more than their home country...like you....
http://www.arcadepub.com/book/?GCOI=...700&fa=preview

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...les/pipes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%E2%8...yar_al-Qadhafi

the list is quite long but these will suffice

As for movements well Unies have been instrumental in both good and bad events in history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_student_movement

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021101014.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_movement

http://www.answers.com/topic/student-movements

http://www.facinghistory.org/campus/...udent+movement

What is daft is ignoring the threat...if you look at the records of history.

Famous religious people....who were not ordinary . I left the nutters out as you call all people who adhere to religion as nuts....so I just posted the religious ones as it fits your criteria.
http://www.adherents.com/adh_fam.html

And wild, i'd like you to note that (despite your barb about university students) the overwhelming bulk of religious nutters come from poorly or ordinarily educated backgrounds.

What *IS* daft is taking a handful of isolated incidents out of millions of people attending college worldwide and spreading the typical right wing paranoid message about a world ( university life, culture, student mindsets, etc) that you do not know about.

Originally Posted by DistantCelt

The notion of claims and proofs seems to work backwards for you- *you* are the one who is claiming that universities are fertile recruiting grounds for terrorists. As such, it is *your* responsibility to substantiate the claims with facts and figures- something which you havn't done because facts and figures do not support your paranoid and anti-university perspective. I didnt make a claim- i refuted it with my personal involvement with universities-something which you lack and therefore, your anecdotal reference and opinions are irrelevant.
And I have supplied facts that are consistent with reality and my conclusion- out of millions of university students who graduate every year and several millions more who attend universities at any given time, you will, at best, find a dozen or two in the last 15 years that've associated with terrorism. As such, a couple of dozen individuals out of millions is insignificant grounds to brand universities as 'breeding grounds' for terrorists and a claim that cannot stand the test of authenticity. I mentioned that you'd be far better off looking for terrorist wannabes in your churches, halls, mosques and synagogues. Which, has a far far higher proportion of fanatical people than universities do.
As usual, you not only confuse the issue of where (or with whom) the burden of proof lies in a case and resort to anecdotal inferences and telling people, who are far better travelled and experienced in this world than you about your unfounded opinions. There are many here who know far more than I do about the ways of the world- but you are not one of them due to your profound lack of education and experience in travelling/living/appraising various different cultures and ways of life.
This is not meant as a diss but to point out facts to you that your notion of the world is quite different from the ground realities as personally experienced by people who have first hand experience.

[DistantCelt]

The Universities are fertile grounds .....they were the biggest bunch of druggies in the 60's with the hippie fad. They now are not policing what is going on in their Muslim prayer rooms...those rooms should have a Western person who can be bondable, is SANE, who speaks Arabic, farsi etc....monitoring those rooms or they should not exist until they can be, if anything happens because of them then the University should be sued for allowing terrorists to carry out their plots using the campus. If they cannot be responsible about what they are doing and funding then they should not do or fund it. Simple as that.

You show how clueless you are about university culture if you equate hippie rebels and druggies with terrorists (who are distinctly against that sort of behaviour). University folks tend to be, on the overwhelming scale, pacifistic, free loving 'live and let live' mentality people.
You are using a handful of terrorists with university education out of dozens of millions who graduate every year- that is literally making a mountain out of a molehill by using one-in-a-million case to spread paranoia.
Do not, for a moment, think that i dont know your root cause of targetting universities- bible thumpers like yourself are scared of the university types because we are, on average, the biggest threat to christianity in the west with our rejection of your rather crude religions.
Oh by the way- what you propose ( westerner present in mosques and other areas) is highly discriminatory- lets have an arab be a mandatory presence in your churches and halls too.

Besides, my point is not to tell you who to listen to and who not to- it is to tell you that until you personally experience the world, you got no clue to the ground realities- and even very well travelled individuals like myself know a lot less than what we dont know about this world. Keep that in perspective.
Hearing and living are two completely different things and until you live it, your basis of knowledge is purely second hand and akin to reading an article about the Taj Mahal and actually being inside the Taj.

[wild-in-tent]

Summary:Universities have been responsible for many things in history- The hippie movement was just such a movement in point, I used something everyone could understand, but some didn't.....apparently.
Arabs are in Churches. There are many Arab Christians and they bring new Arabs in for services, my Punjabi friend years ago was invited to services and went.she is a Sikh....the churches aren't closed. Visitors and converts welcome. It even says that on television most days. They would probably welcome it thinking if the Arab was exposed to services he might find the Lord.....lol! I can see it now....you probably noted all the eminent RELIGIOUS scientists no doubt?

[DistantCelt]

you probably noted all the eminent RELIGIOUS scientists no doubt?

They are a very rare breed because science and religion dont mix really. Most can tell that, except for the most brainwashed folks who've been religiously brainwashed since an early age by their parents.
Btw, i dont have a problem with religious folks. I have a problem with people stupid enough to believe in the bible or the quoran or the torah literally- as in every word is true and justified.
That is just as dumb as it gets in my opinion, especially if pointed out and explained so.
Anyone who thinks that this earth is 7000-8000 years old has, quite plainly, a few screws loose.

Universities tend to be a bastion for many things, particularly leftist stuff but it is never, i repeat- never a hotbed of religious fanaticism, which is what you need for terrorism. That is a basic fundamental point and anyone who ignores this is misguided.
And please dont tell me what is/isnt the case with university campuses and their studens just because you read something in the paper. One shouldnt be naive enough to believe everything they read in the paper because they should realise that the west, particularly the right wing nutters are NOT neutral in this Israel Palestine conflict and have ulterior religiously bigoted reasons to support Israeli attrocities.

Infact, if i wanted to, i could categorically sue certain newspapers for scaremongering like you are doing here- the day after the UK 'terror plot' was supposedly uncovered ( i say supposedly because the British authorities have been categorically wrong before and i await proof instead of simple statements) the National Post ran a 5 page article on it and got some 'expert' columns on what kinds of liquits are genuine bomb threats for the planes.
That idiot mentioned Nitrogylcerin !
Anybody who thinks that they could either make Nitroglycerin in the toilet of a plane from raw ingredients or carry it on them to the plane are obviously clueless about the basic nature of nitrogylcerin and its handling techniques.
So kindly desist in scaremongering because you are scared silly with something your part of the world has never experienced before ( terrorism in north america) in such a coordinated way.

PS: As far as christians and muslims go, the conversions mostly go from Christians to Muslim, not the other way round. It has very little to do with killing the apostate command in the Koran- it is rare to see a muslim convert to christianity even when that threat carries little or no practical significance.
The reason is pretty simple - both the Koran and the Bible are flawed books with circular reasoning and misguided notions. The Koran however,is far better composed in terms of consistency and language than the Bible, which is a book beyond ludicrous to most people who've read it in their teens or later and havn't been brainwashed into being a bible thumper.

[wild-in-tent]

I think you should try to sue. The entertainment value alone is worthwhile


Ummmm I agree with the 7-8 thou being ludicrous...in fact the Bible does not support that view either. Each creative day was at least 7000 years long and from what my parents taught me and what I have read myself, the earth was already a covered in water sitting there for an undeterminate amount of time, as the Bible does not say how long it was in existence. It does say however point out that Man was created on the 6th day....so if when one does the calculations, each day was 7,000 years of the creationary period then already 42,000 years had passed from the time fish appeared till man was created. That is how I understand it anyhow. Some may disagree. But that a creative day is a long time ...one simply need see that Adam was created a long time ago and we are still in the 6 th day according to the Bible, Armageddon happens in the 6th day time period. We are not talking a paltry amount of time like that. Possibly it is longer than 7,000. One day when I am bored I may sit down and check it out and do the math.

Well please do explain it exactly. Many would be interested on why that cannot be done.

Anybody who thinks that they could either make Nitroglycerin in the toilet of a plane from raw ingredients or carry it on them to the plane are obviously clueless about the basic nature of nitrogylcerin and its handling techniques.



[quote=DistantCelt]
Anyone who thinks that this earth is 7000-8000 years old has, quite plainly, a few screws loose.


Infact, if i wanted to, i could categorically sue certain newspapers for scaremongering like you are doing here

[DistantCelt]

Well please do explain it exactly. Many would be interested on why that cannot be done.

Cannot be done what ? take nitroglycerin with you on the plane or make it onboard ?
Well here's the answer:

1. Why it cannot be taken on the plane :

Nitroglycerin is way too volatile to be carried around. Infact, applications of nigroglycerin outside of labs is very rare because it can deciede to blow up on your face at the slightest vibration, not to mention, even if you keep it perfectly still, it might still deciede to blow up.
Now considering how hard it is to carry something without the slightest vibration, ( for eg, a richter scale 1 shock- which most humans cant even feel standing perfectly still, would set off Nitroglycerin) it is quite ludicrous to suggest that someone would be daft enough to carry nitroglycerin with him/her on person. The person would be dead in all probability before he crossed 10 city blocks from ground zero(ie, where he/she made it) regardless of means of transportation. The only ways to carry nitroglycerin is :

a).To freeze it ( 5-10 degrees celisius i believe) but the thawing out process is even more sensetive than carrying it on person.

b). Or one could desensetise it by adding ethanol or acetone but desensetised nitroglycerin is not an explosive and you need a 5 step laboratory process to reconstitute it back to origina nitroglycerin. Quite simply, carrying a vial of nitroglycerin on person might just be the quickest and most surefire way to die before you wanted to.

2. Why you cannot make it on the plane:

The easy way to make nitroglycerin (relatively speaking) is to mix concentrated sulphuric acid and concentrated nitric acid very very slowly and then adding glycerin to it again, very very slowly. By slowly i mean perfectly still- which you aint gonna achieve ever in the back of a plane. Not to mention, sulphuric acid-nitric acid reaction is highly exothermic. In labs the reaction vessel is kept under liquid nitrogen or dry ice or at the very very least(and it is considered highly dangerous), under ice cold water.Not to mention, you have to keep the vessel at extremely cool temperatures AFTER sulphuric and nitric acids have been mixed and BEFORE you add glycerol. There is also the slight matter of keeping the reaction temperature for H2SO4 and HNO3 stable at around 30 degrees C while you are doing it ( cooler and nothing happens, hotter and its kaboom).

Ofcourse, there are numerous incidents involving production and/or transportation of nitroglycerin where you did everything right and it still decieded to blow up.

Anyone who thinks that they can do that on the back of a plane needs a reality check, not to mention, revocation of any professional licence(if carrying-wouldnt be surprised if these so-called newspaper 'experts' were nothing more than journos with an overbloated sense of their understanding of science).

I dont care if the so-called expert has a so-called degree but if he/she thinks that nitroglycerin is a 'genuine threat for terrorism onboard aircrafts', he/she plain ol purchased his/her degree. Period.

One day when I am bored I may sit down and check it out and do the math.

A better use of your time would be to learn the physics behind carbon dating and isotopic decay and why it absolutely blows the biblical creation nonsense out of the water. The earth is a few billion years old. That is an unchallengable and absolutely categoric fact that no amount of religious goobledegook can stand up to.