Is it me or is Israel completely out of order ?

[jasperthecat]

Originally Posted by McSkeeter

Israel prefers a liberal Democracy with some socialist ideas incorporated.

The "left" should be supporting Israel.

Such as ?

Socialist ideals....I cannot stop laughing. I suppose you think a land grab is a redistribution of wealth !

The left did once support Israel (prior to 1967, its biggest ally was France) that was until it became an arrogant appologist for force and violation of the Palestinian's human rights. I guess you think Bibi Netenyahu is an asian Che Guevara ?

[gustard]

For those of you who are finding the daily news reports increasingly hard to stomach -

I've discovered the solution to world war, famine, pestilence and the impending doom which threatens our peace of mind daily.
THROW THE F%)(^*$ING TELEVISION OUT OF THE WINDOW
OK it mmight not be the perfect solution but it worked for me (=;

[jasperthecat]

Originally Posted by gustard

For those of you who are finding the daily news reports increasingly hard to stomach -

I've discovered the solution to world war, famine, pestilence and the impending doom which threatens our peace of mind daily.
THROW THE F%)(^*$ING TELEVISION OUT OF THE WINDOW
OK it mmight not be the perfect solution but it worked for me (=;

Works for me ! Seriously, I got rid of my TV about 4 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did. It makes you realise how superficial much of the news coverage really is (and that is not a reflection on the journalists- how can you cover the events in the ME in 10 mins ?).

If you really want news, you have to pay for it in printed form. There is good stuff on the web, if you know where to look, but it ain't on TV !

[McSkeeter]

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

Such as ?

Socialist ideals....I cannot stop laughing. I suppose you think a land grab is a redistribution of wealth !

The left did once support Israel (prior to 1967, its biggest ally was France) that was until it became an arrogant appologist for force and violation of the Palestinian's human rights. I guess you think Bibi Netenyahu is an asian Che Guevara ?

Let's take a tried and true pillar of leftism and socialism: Labor Unions. You don't have to look far to find evidence of the ruthless suppression of labor unions in Iran.
Which country is (one of) the biggest supporters of the Hezzies? That's right! Iran.

Land Grab? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Israel withdrew from Lebanon some time ago. From what I understand, Israel had planned to withdraw from sections of the West bank as well. What do the Israelis get for this? Yep. More attacks from Islamist scumbags. At least in countries like Israel, socialists have some influence over policy. When was the last time the organisers of labor unions in Israel were rounded up and summarily executed?

[DistantCelt]

Land Grab? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Israel withdrew from Lebanon some time ago. From what I understand, Israel had planned to withdraw from sections of the West bank as well. What do the Israelis get for this?

Israel has no intentions of returning the land and homes it grabbed from innocent folks. They have no intention of withdrawing to the UN mandated(and still active by the way) order to withdraw to the borders set in 1960s(67?).Neither are they willing to let the refugees it kicked out through terrorism and force return. I suppose you wouldnt have a problem with a bunch of Italians comming over to the UK and kicking the british off the island because the Romans 'were there before the ancestors of most brits were in Britain'.
Thats about as ridiculous as the notion of founding of Israel-not to mention, their forced eviction of the refugees.

[jasperthecat]

Originally Posted by McSkeeter

Let's take a tried and true pillar of leftism and socialism: Labor Unions. You don't have to look far to find evidence of the ruthless suppression of labor unions in Iran.
Which country is (one of) the biggest supporters of the Hezzies? That's right! Iran.

Land Grab? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Israel withdrew from Lebanon some time ago. From what I understand, Israel had planned to withdraw from sections of the West bank as well. What do the Israelis get for this? Yep. More attacks from Islamist scumbags. At least in countries like Israel, socialists have some influence over policy. When was the last time the organisers of labor unions in Israel were rounded up and summarily executed?

Oustanding...what a rebutal ! Israel is Socialist beccause Iran does not allow labour unions. It's only a matter of time until some third rate university offers you an honoury PhD for this profound insight, it's a wonder Fox News haven't offered someone like you, with a tenuous grasp of reality, and a shallow enough ego to want to publicise the fact, a shot as 'our resident Middle East expert', after all, your ignorance certainly qualifies you for feeding the news to fellow mouth breathers.

So Israel withdrew from Gaza, I take it you mean after they had occupied it between 1967 and 2005, so forgive me if I fall over the fact that they have vacated it in accord with the original 1948 agreement. Would you argue that if Canada controlled all of America's ports and airspace, it did not have some territorial claim - that's what Israel have over Gaza, so it's hardly a 'withdrawal' unless your definition is a shallow as your mind. When did they withdraw from the Golan Heights ? When did they withdraw from the Shab'a Farms ? But they withdrew from Gaza ! Well, that settles the matter does't it. Sorry, forgot, Iran don't allow labour unions. Neither do Walmart, lets bomb America !

Tell me, oh oracle, just what influence the Israeli socialist have in Israel ? I doubt you could even name the socialst party in Israel without recourse to Google. Union membership has declined in Israel since the 1990s and was based on the early English model of trade unions, later to encorprate ideas from other EU countries, in particular, regard to discrimination at work, and the rights of women, and pregant women. Alas, such laws rarely apply to the Arab populace of Israel who frequently suffer discrimination by empoyers and by the courts- a cursery reading of Ha'arazt might better inform you of such maters, but reading does not appear among you strong points, which is probably fortunate given the errneous conclusions you manage in such rare occaisions.

Having detirmined that Iran has an appalling record for human rights,including membership of unions, you conclude that Israel is better as it is not as bad as Iran. What about comparing Israel to countries in Skandinavia for example- why just Iran ? because, you really don't know what you are talking about, and like so many of your ilk, such a disability does not preclude you from doing so at any opportunity. Where did I defend Iran's human rights record, or their record of union membership ? Forgive me, but I never mentioned Iran, a fact you seem to have conveniently overlooked. Incidently, China have forced Walmart to offer union memebership, so are they better than America by you ignorant defintion ?

No, you make an assumption based on the fact that you only have a simple script to think from, and no intelligence to ask any questions of yourself or others. It's a knee reply from someone with little depth or knowledge, and no desire to correct their prejudice, or capacity to do so.

Another fact for your overtaxed mind (such that it is). Which country sold Iran the missiles that are being used against the Mekava tanks in Lebanon ?

I'll leave you to look it up. It's evident the only useful thing you can manage in this debate is to troll the internet for fellow idiots and their simplistic arguments, and there is no shortage at the moment, so you won't get lonely out there. Alternatively, you could try growing up.

There is a saying that so appropriatly applies to you: 'Is it better to keep quiet and appear an idiot, or open your mouth and conirm it'. It seems the latter is your preferred choice, as I have no doubt you will demonstrate in response. Next time, try and get a few facts right. It would be refreshing.

[McSkeeter]

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

Oustanding...what a rebutal ! Israel is Socialist beccause Iran does not allow labour unions. It's only a matter of time until some third rate university offers you an honoury PhD for this profound insight, it's a wonder Fox News haven't offered someone like you, with a tenuous grasp of reality, and a shallow enough ego to want to publicise the fact, a shot as 'our resident Middle East expert', after all, your ignorance certainly qualifies you for feeding the news to fellow mouth breathers.

I never said Israel is a socialist state, you unmitigated ass hole. I SAID socialists have some influence in Israel. THAT'S why the left should support Israel over a bunch of totalitarian theocratic kooks. The Socialist left has a damn sight more influence in Israel than in Iran, the major supporters of your best buddies, Hizb'allah.

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

So Israel withdrew from Gaza, I take it you mean after they had occupied it between 1967 and 2005, so forgive me if I fall over the fact that they have vacated it in accord with the original 1948 agreement. Would you argue that if Canada controlled all of America's ports and airspace, it did not have some territorial claim - that's what Israel have over Gaza, so it's hardly a 'withdrawal' unless your definition is a shallow as your mind. When did they withdraw from the Golan Heights ? When did they withdraw from the Shab'a Farms ? But they withdrew from Gaza ! Well, that settles the matter does't it. Sorry, forgot, Iran don't allow labour unions. Neither do Walmart, lets bomb America !

After the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, did some Israelis stick around in the seaports and "airspace" that I'm not aware of? About the Golan Heights and Shab'a farms. Tell me, smart ass. Which country has legal sovreignty over Shab'a farms? If it's Lebanon, why doesn't Syria recognise that fact? Oh. I forgot. Syria (anouther Hizzie supporter) doesn't even recognise Lebanon!

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

Tell me, oh oracle, just what influence the Israeli socialist have in Israel ? I doubt you could even name the socialst party in Israel without recourse to Google. Union membership has declined in Israel since the 1990s and was based on the early English model of trade unions, later to encorprate ideas from other EU countries, in particular, regard to discrimination at work, and the rights of women, and pregant women. Alas, such laws rarely apply to the Arab populace of Israel who frequently suffer discrimination by empoyers and by the courts- a cursery reading of Ha'arazt might better inform you of such maters, but reading does not appear among you strong points, which is probably fortunate given the errneous conclusions you manage in such rare occaisions.

I don't give a f*ck about Socialist parties in Israel. I prefer Capitalism with some socialist ideas incorporated. Most certainly the ones you cited above. I'm saying Socialists and the "left" in general would be far better off living in a liberal democracy than in a disgusting totalitarian Islamic theocracy. The latter is exactly what the likes of Hisb'allah (and apparently YOUR ilk) wants.

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

Having detirmined that Iran has an appalling record for human rights,including membership of unions, you conclude that Israel is better as it is not as bad as Iran. What about comparing Israel to countries in Skandinavia for example- why just Iran ? because, you really don't know what you are talking about, and like so many of your ilk, such a disability does not preclude you from doing so at any opportunity. Where did I defend Iran's human rights record, or their record of union membership ? Forgive me, but I never mentioned Iran, a fact you seem to have conveniently overlooked. Incidently, China have forced Walmart to offer union memebership, so are they better than America by you ignorant defintion ?

Scandinavians aren't surrounded by a bunch of Islamist ass holes who want to wipe them off the map, are they? Idiot. Since we're making comparisons, why don't you and your "ilk" focus your anger on the atrocious behaviour of certain African Governments? What's the Janjaweed defending against? A bunch of dirt poor farmers? Get your priorities right for crying out loud!

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

No, you make an assumption based on the fact that you only have a simple script to think from, and no intelligence to ask any questions of yourself or others. It's a knee reply from someone with little depth or knowledge, and no desire to correct their prejudice, or capacity to do so.

Since the above paragraph is nothing but personal insults, go f*ck yourself.

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

Another fact for your overtaxed mind (such that it is). Which country sold Iran the missiles that are being used against the Mekava tanks in Lebanon ?

I'll leave you to look it up. It's evident the only useful thing you can manage in this debate is to troll the internet for fellow idiots and their simplistic arguments, and there is no shortage at the moment, so you won't get lonely out there. Alternatively, you could try growing up.

The Israelis sold arms to Iran at some point in history. So what? What the hell does that have to do with the price of beans? If entity "A" sells arms to entity "B" and then entity "B" attacks entity "A" with said weapons, Then entity "B" shouldn't cry "foul" when entity "A" kicks entity "B's" ass.

Originally Posted by jasperthecat

There is a saying that so appropriatly applies to you: 'Is it better to keep quiet and appear an idiot, or open your mouth and conirm it'. It seems the latter is your preferred choice, as I have no doubt you will demonstrate in response. Next time, try and get a few facts right. It would be refreshing.

Great. More insults. Let me reiterate:

Go.
F*ck.
Yourself.