English People

[NovaBritannia]

Originally Posted by gustard

Namely your evasion of the point that England dominated Scotland

Again, it wasn't the Scottish Commissioners of Union that had to be sacked for being hostile to the idea...

took away its parliaments' power

Actually that was the Acts of Union that went through the Parliaments of both England and Scotland. In the same respect we took away their Parliament's power.

and ruled it from Westminster.

The location of a capital city is irrelevant.

The fact that the English Government changed parliaments name from the English to the british parliament

Actually a government has no such power. Again it was the Parliaments of Scotland and England via the Acts of Union that they both passed - and I have presented countless sound arguments that demonstrate that the Parliament of Great Britain is no more a successor of the Parliament of England than it is of the Parliament of Scotland, save for a few matters of structure which it is down to the members to determine, can be easily altered and are really superior to the way the Parliament in Edinburgh ran.

in no way changes the fact that it was England pulling the strings. The way you are making out that England also "lost"its parliament to the larger entity known as Britain thus equating its situation to Scotlands' is laughable.

Laughable? It seems it is only laughable to those, like Scottish_Republican, who have only the vaguest understanding of the constitution of this country.

In fact, all the people with any knowledge - law makers, High Court judges in Scotland et al agree with me. Not to mention that it is what the law actually says and what has happened in practise.

[Babz]

QUOTE by NovaBritannia You've really not listened to anything in this thread, have you ?
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I seem to think that this thread has gone way off the track of the thread poster !!

Sniping at one an other is not what Marhar intended !!--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Marhar

Do most of the Scottish population see English People
as a threat to their country and their way of living

Marhar

[gustard]

Originally Posted by NovaBritannia

Again, it wasn't the Scottish Commissioners of Union that had to be sacked for being hostile to the idea...




Actually that was the Acts of Union that went through the Parliaments of both England and Scotland. In the same respect we took away their Parliament's power.



The location of a capital city is irrelevant.



Actually a government has no such power. Again it was the Parliaments of Scotland and England via the Acts of Union that they both passed - and I have presented countless sound arguments that demonstrate that the Parliament of Great Britain is no more a successor of the Parliament of England than it is of the Parliament of Scotland, save for a few matters of structure which it is down to the members to determine, can be easily altered and are really superior to the way the Parliament in Edinburgh ran.



Laughable? It seems it is only laughable to those, like Scottish_Republican, who have only the vaguest understanding of the constitution of this country.

In fact, all the people with any knowledge - law makers, High Court judges in Scotland et al agree with me. Not to mention that it is what the law actually says and what has happened in practise.

Thats as maybe but parliaments do not always represent the will of the people. For example if America were to put puppet officials in key positions in an Iraqui parliament and bribe and threaten others it is possible that in 100 years some one like you would be saying "but the iraqui parliament AGREED to pipe us the oil " etc etc
As it was there was lots of dirty tricks, bribery and protests associated with the act of the union and a near civil uprising amongst the scottish people. so why should the descendants of those who were opposed to such a union accept it now ? These feelings are obviously still current as can be seen in the devolution process, for you to completely dismiss them seems strange and to me demonstrate that old agendas, biases and attitudes from both "sides" still prevail today.
Indeed it appears that the votes to join the union in the scottish parliament were more influenced by the private financial interests of scottish members of parliament than the desire of the scottish people .

I refer you to a quote from Wikipedia :

`The whole nation appears against the Union'.

The ultimate securing of the treaty in the Scottish Parliament can be attributed more to the weakness and lack of cohesion between the various opposition groups in the House as opposed to the strength of pro-incorporationists. The combined votes of the Court party with a majority of the Squadrone Volante were sufficient to ensure the final passage of the treaty through the House. Many members had invested heavily in the Darién Scheme and they believed that they would receive compensation for their losses; Article 14, the Eqivalent granted £398 085 10s to Scotland to offset future liability towards the English national debt. In essence, it was also used a means of compensation for investors in Darién.

Bribery and financial persuasion were also prevalent. £20 000 (£240 000 Scots) being despatched to Scotland for distribution by the Earl of Glasgow. James Douglas, 2nd Duke of Queensberry, the Queen's Commissioner in Parliament received £12 325 sterling, the majority of the funding. The bulk of this funding was used in the payment of spies and agent provocateurs.

The Acts of Union were far from universally popular in Scotland, particularly amongst the general population. Many petitions were sent to the Scottish Parliament against union, and there were massive protests in Edinburgh and several other Scottish towns on the day it as threat of widespread civil unrest resulted in the imposition of martial law by the Parliament.

........


"for every Scot in favour there is 99 against". Public opinion against the Treaty as it passed through the Scottish Parliament was voiced through petitions from the Scottish localities. Anti-union petitions were received from shires, burghs, presbyteries and parishes. The Convention of Royal Burghs also petitioned against the Union and not one petition in favour of an incorporating union was received by Parliament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707

[NovaBritannia]

Originally Posted by gustard

Thats as maybe but parliaments do not always represent the will of the people. For example if America were to put puppet officials in key positions in an Iraqui parliament and bribe and threaten others it is possible that in 100 years some one like you would be saying "but the iraqui parliament AGREED to pipe us the oil " etc etc

True, but these things can be changed. The Parliament of Scotland was not, for all its weaknesses, a puppet legislature either.

Scotland was formed in far more dubious circumstances - the people had absolutely no say in the matter, it was simply a series of intermarriages and wars designed to expand certain Kings' little empires.

why should the descendants of those who were opposed to such a union accept it now ? These feelings are obviously still current as can be seen in the devolution process, for you to completely dismiss them seems strange and to me demonstrate that old agendas, biases and attitudes from both "sides" still prevail today.

Perhaps because all the propaganda spread at the time: that we'd be a province of the Anglican Communion and subject to the Book of Common Prayer etc have all been proven wrong?

I have to admit I think very little about the circumstances of where we find our country in today. Go back far enough and every country is created and changed for dubious purposes. Even the land which I hold as my own was stolen or taken by force or arms once.

I don't have any particular wish to change something simply because of the circumstances it was entered into however.

[Babz]

I said yesterday that this thread is not going the way the thread originator intended !!

For that reason I am closing it...if you have any valid reason for me keeping it open
mail me !!

If you want to have a political debate please move over to 'POLITICS'