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Interesting article on the Anglicisation of the Scots

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Old 17th July 2011, 12:53
ANDY-J3 ANDY-J3 is offline
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I am discussing the article and whether it supports the premise made in your opening post regarding the alleged Anglicisation of the Scots.
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Old 17th July 2011, 13:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgoinneil View Post
Whatb is wrong with the idea that some people living in Scotland at one time, percieved themselves to be English? It should be of interest to everyone interested in Scottish history.
theres a thousands of people in Scotland who think of themselves as English.
being english usually helps.

where are you from SG?
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Old 17th July 2011, 13:33
ANDY-J3 ANDY-J3 is offline
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Sgoinneil seems to suggest that when medieval Scots happened to speak the English language, that somehow resulted in them becoming Anglicised and embracing English culture, which prevented them from having a clear sense of Scottish identity but obviously that is wrong. If you look at modern Switzerlend there is no Swiss language and never has been but do the Swiss who speak a German dialect identify themselves as being German? Of course not and neither did the Scots of the middle ages identify themselves as being English just because they happened to speak the Inglis language. Cultural and national identity isn't defined solely by language.
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Old 17th July 2011, 13:47
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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Swiss minorities often resent each other and their dialects and there is often tension particularly between German and French speakers. It is quite possible to be loyal to a national govt or king etc and feel ethnically different and there is plenty of evidence from English sources to suggest this was the case in the South East of the Scottish kingdom at the time. The Swiss were brought together due to religious persecution andearlier imperial harrasment from the Hapsburgs. It doesnt mean that originally they thought of themselves as the same people. Dauvit Brown wrote an interesting article on the development of a Scottish identity due to similair pressures and how feudal loyalt turned into a broader sense of the ethnic term, ie English Scots changed how they saw themselves because of opposition to the aggressing power.
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Old 17th July 2011, 13:52
ANDY-J3 ANDY-J3 is offline
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I disagree because what you have in Scotland are predominantly Anglo-Saxon immigrants many of whom fled persecution after the Norman conquest and you then see the emergence of an Anglo-Norman culture in England. Was there such a thing as an English cultural and national identity before the later middle ages by which time the Anglo-Saxon descendents in the south of Scotland were fully integrated into the community and aware of their unique Scottish identity.
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Old 17th July 2011, 13:55
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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There would have been a strong sense of resentment of the Normans. This comes across in the tales like Robin Hood (some of which were written in Scots!) by Andrew of Wyntoun for example.
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Old 17th July 2011, 14:03
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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I think there is a knee-jerk reaction to the word English in relation to Scots who spoke Middle English. It says nothing abiout whether they would be loyal to a foreign government. I dont see why it should.
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