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Why, exactly Scots > Ireland?

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 4th November 2011, 11:05
hiorta hiorta is offline
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Unwanted military incursions into Ireland

I suggest that this would be a more fruitful question if knowledge of Irish history was being sought.

Inevitably there would have been Scots mercenaries involved, although these would be in, mainly, Ulster. Sadly, some Scots were all too ready to be persuaded to do Englands dirty work, let's hope times have changed.

England, on the other hand, were constantly engaged in terrorist invasions of Ireland since the time of Cromwell.

There are some excellent printed works from and by academics from Queen's University, Belfast on these matters.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 4th November 2011, 19:59
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well babz you can always boot the offender off the forum.

no need for nasty emails

I suppose I could have tig !

It wasn't a mail address that I knew, I actually think it was someone already
banned(the way it was
written rings bells)...as I said not going to lose sleep over it !!!!!!

Anyway I will be moving max's posts over from the 'Reply' thread
as I believe it does belong here and Max has ok'd it
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2012, 19:47
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There has always been movement between the peoples or "tribes" of Scotland and Ireland, this is nothing new. Indeed some state that the indigenous tribe of Ireland , the Cruthin (pronounced creenie) and the Picts of Scotland were closely related. There were several Cruthin kings of both Scotland and Ireland. When the Irish were in Scotland the Romans called them Scotti even though they were of course of Irish origin.
In later times due to the highland clearances and famine the Scottish were offered land to farm in Ireland. As there was little chance of survival for themselves and families in Scotland they had no choice but to take this offer. Half starved and with few belongings they arrived in Ireland.
However things were not much better for them in Ireland. Because the church was now Anglican and the majority of the scots were Presbyterian they were not allowed to hold jobs of high or official levels, they had no rights to vote and their marriages were not recognised by the church. Added to this was the resentment the Irish had for them because of the political reasons of their arrival.
Many left for Canada and America. Many more could not afford this option.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 20th March 2012, 08:06
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Lachlan09 Lachlan09 is offline
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Did Highlanders leave Scotland for Ireland in the 19th Century due to the Clearances and famine ? There was a 17th Century transplantation of not-starving Protestant Lowland Scots to Ulster, but I'm not aware of a later exodus to Ireland from the impoverished Highlands. I always throught they went (willingly or otherwise) to Canada, USA, Lowland Scotland or England. If they did go to Ireland during the Clearances, they couldn't have stayed long as the Irish potato famine came along in the 1840's, spurring large Irish emigration. Sounds like a case of out of the frying pan into the fire !
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 20th March 2012, 19:05
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Originally Posted by Bluehawk View Post
> Why, for heaven sake, DID so many Scots move away from their homeland to Ireland (Ulster or elsewhere)?
Greed - the landlords could make more money from sheep/deer etc - in many cases.

In the case of the Plantation of Ulster, James VI, had just become king of England, so wished to deal with the troublesome Scottish Borderers. So, to kill two birds with one stone, he settled many of these people in Ireland, which was also troublesome.

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Originally Posted by Bluehawk View Post
> Did they ALL go to Ulster, and if so or if not, then where?
In the Middle Ages, before the Union, Scots went to live all over Continental Europe, particularly France, Holland, the German principalities, Scandinavia, Poland and even Russia.

Huge numbers of Scots have settled in England, for many centuries as well.

Scots could be found throughout the British Empire, and also in many parts of South America.


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Originally Posted by Bluehawk View Post
> Were there no Scots in Ireland prior to the migration to Ulster?
The original "Scotti" were Irish. There has always been plenty of traffic between the two countries. Gaelic used to be spoken in nearly all Scotland, and comes from Ireland.

Google "Gallowglass".
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Old 20th March 2012, 19:07
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Originally Posted by hiorta View Post
By Ireland, you possibly mean Ulster?

This was English ethnic cleansing continuing from the organised influx of French Hugenots, which failed due to miltant Irish patriots removing them.
An earlier Scots Planting in Catholic Ireland failed for the same reasons.
Huguenots did go to live in Ireland, along with Jews, Germans, other French, even Spanish. But this was not an organised colonisation by the English.

There are indeed Irish Huguenot families such as the Le Fanus, but I think you are getting matters confused here.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 15th July 2012, 19:54
TheLastLazyGun TheLastLazyGun is offline
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His son, also named Matthew Bell, was born in Londonderry, Ireland in 1677 and passed away, as our first Bell family colonist to the new world at Cumberland in the Pennsylvania Colony, in 1722. Londonderry, as will be remembered, is the name of a famous city which, in fact, had its name changed from "Derry" in 1613 as the Protestant King James I of England and Scotland (Mary Queen of Scots' son and successor) sought to impose English rule over Catholic Irish - by the fiat of essentially taking control by settling Scots on 4,000,000 acres from them for that purpose.
How could it have been "English rule" over the Irish? It seems that this is yet another incident of the Scots trying to pass the blame of historical events that they caused and are probably not proud of onto the English to make it look as though they had nothing to do with it.

King James I of England was a SCOT, not an Englishman, and he had also been King James VI of Scotland for many years before he took the English throne.

It was also that famous Scotsman who started the Ulster Plantations and therefore helped to cause the troubles that still exist in Ireland.

It would be more accurate to say that it was "British rule" over the Irish, not English rule, because the English at the time - as now - didn't even rule themselves, never mind anybody else. It was a Scot who made the big decisions.
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