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gustard 20th February 2006 13:43

The Picts
 
What is actually historically known about them ? What happened to them ? Are there any scottish names/clans known to be pictish in origin ? Tartans ?
Where they the only ones to use wode ? What of their language do we know anything of it all, its etymology ?
I guess most sources must be roman, but maybe some stories hang around in folklore as well (oral) any way so many questions hope theres some answers !
cheers
Gus

ANDY-J3 28th February 2006 13:48

Most of what we can say about them is based on conjecture because they had an oral culture and left no written records although they did leave several hundred standing stones with ornate designs dealing with their folklore-these are the greatest source of reliable information that historians have about them. What is known with a degree of certainty is that they spoke a Brythonic dialect,probably interspersed with some words from a pre-Celtic language. Some traces of their language remains in place names beginning with Dun or Pit-Dunblane,Pitenweem etc. They were not always one united people but two distinct northern and southern groups respectively known as the Caledonii and Maetae and the latter name is still found in the hill name Dumyat (Dun Maetae-hill fort of the Maetae). In the early centuries AD most Celtic tribes in Britain used woad however in the annals of their battles against the Angles in the seventh and eight centuries there is no mention of it so they probably didn't use it by then. Their demise came about during the dark ages as they came under attack from Angles,Vikings,Britons and Scots and eventually they succumbed and the Scots King Kenneth MacAlpin probably through the use of treachery became the King of the united Picto-Scottish kingdom that became Scotland.

Laeg 28th February 2006 17:13

This is a site about the Cruthin and Ulster history. But if you hit the link it will take you to a site about the Picts.

The Cruthin and Picts are reckoned by many,to be the same people,but given different names....by different people.

Nigel Tranter in his books certainly mentions the Cruthin.

www.cruithni.org.uk

Lianachan 8th March 2006 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANDY-J3
Most of what we can say about them is based on conjecture because they had an oral culture and left no written records although they did leave several hundred standing stones with ornate designs dealing with their folklore-these are the greatest source of reliable information that historians have about them. What is known with a degree of certainty is that they spoke a Brythonic dialect,probably interspersed with some words from a pre-Celtic language. Some traces of their language remains in place names beginning with Dun or Pit-Dunblane,Pitenweem etc. They were not always one united people but two distinct northern and southern groups respectively known as the Caledonii and Maetae and the latter name is still found in the hill name Dumyat (Dun Maetae-hill fort of the Maetae). In the early centuries AD most Celtic tribes in Britain used woad however in the annals of their battles against the Angles in the seventh and eight centuries there is no mention of it so they probably didn't use it by then. Their demise came about during the dark ages as they came under attack from Angles,Vikings,Britons and Scots and eventually they succumbed and the Scots King Kenneth MacAlpin probably through the use of treachery became the King of the united Picto-Scottish kingdom that became Scotland.

Dun is generally of q-Celtic origin (gaelic) not p-Celtic (welsh, "pictish"), although there is a common root to both, but there are many place name elements that are indicitive of Pictish settlement - the most common one is probably Aber (Aberdeen) which means the same thing as the gaelic Inver (Inverness). Language In Pictland by Katherine Forsyth is a decent read about Pictish language, and is available legally and for free online.

Also, it's now generally thought that the Picts didn't vanish and were not defeated or conquered by Scots.

aNonnyMoose 9th March 2006 07:29

They didn't vanish, they merely intermingled with the Scots and others, and stronger traditions than their own prevailed. Their influence is seen on carved stones right up to the 8th and 9th centuries, if not a little later. By the time the Norman influence started to appear in Scotland, there was no such 'race' as the Picts - they had become Scots along with the immigrants who had arrived during that period. Thier main areas of influence can be traced through the prevalence of "pit" placenames - have a wee google for this, it's quite surprising how many there are. Fife, Angus and the NE are the main areas in which this name appears, from Pit an Uamh (Pittenweem) in Fife to Pittodrie by Aberdeen.

keltic_bhoy 9th March 2006 10:48

Caithness was the Kingdom of Cait in Pictish Scotland.

Lianachan 9th March 2006 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by keltic_bhoy
Caithness was the Kingdom of Cait in Pictish Scotland.

Yup - the name is extremely old. Caithness means "Cat People's Headland", and the same tribe also gave their name to Sutherland (Gaelic Cataibh, "Cat People's Land") and Shetland (old Gaelic Innse Cat, "Islands of the Cat People").


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