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The Picts

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Old 9th March 2006, 11:40
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Lianachan Lianachan is offline
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Originally Posted by ANDY-J3
They were not always one united people but two distinct northern and southern groups respectively known as the Caledonii and Maetae and the latter name is still found in the hill name Dumyat (Dun Maetae-hill fort of the Maetae).
Actually, there were several different tribes in Scotland. The Romans used the term Caledonii to describe any people from the north of Scotland. The actual Caledonii tribe are thought to have inhabited roughly the Great Glen area. Other contemporary tribes which are known include the Cornovii, from Caithness, the Smertae from eastern Ross-Shire, the Caereni from the west coast, the Carnonacae and Creones from the Highlands, the Vacomagi from the Cairngorm area, the Taexali from Grampian, the Venicones from Tayside/Angus, the Epidii from Skye and the Inner Hebrides, the Damnonii from Strathclyde, the Novantae from Ayrshire, the Selgovae from the modern border region, and the Votadini from the Lothian area. There were also tribes in the Orkneys, Shetlands and Outer Hebrides. These tribes are all contemporary with the Roman invasion, and so are strictly speaking at least a century before what's thought of as the "Pictish" period. However, the Pictish tribes and kingdoms will have formed from these Iron Age tribes. The Roman invasion probably helped group these indigenous tribes against a common enemy, although the Orcadian inhabitants are known to have made peace with Rome pretty early on.

After a while, as you say, there were two distinct Pictish kingdoms - one in the north and one in the south, which eventually became united as "Pictland" or "Pictavia". Legend has it that there were originally seven Pictish kingdoms - (brackets are approximate modern locations) Cait (Caithness and Sutherland); Ce (Buchan); Circinn (Angus); Fib (Fife); Fidach (?); Fotla (Atholl); and Fortriu (Moray).
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Old 9th March 2006, 12:34
ANDY-J3 ANDY-J3 is offline
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The exception above would be the Votadini because the name Gododdin -the Romano-Britons who inhabited the Lothians- was probably a corruption of Votadini,and they remained hostile to the Picts.
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Old 9th March 2006, 13:00
keltic_bhoy keltic_bhoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lianachan
Yup - the name is extremely old. Caithness means "Cat People's Headland", and the same tribe also gave their name to Sutherland (Gaelic Cataibh, "Cat People's Land") and Shetland (old Gaelic Innse Cat, "Islands of the Cat People").
I suppose that begs the question, who were the Cat People?
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Old 9th March 2006, 16:15
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Originally Posted by keltic_bhoy
I suppose that begs the question, who were the Cat People?
Probably a (and I hate to use this antiquated term) Celtic tribe whose animal totem was a cat, like that of the Orcadians was a boar (which is where the name Orkney comes from).

*edited in afterthought - when the Norse started to investigate the Orkney Isles, they considered the people of modern Caithness as Picts. They called the stretch of water between the Orkneys and the mainland Pettaland-fjiordr, Pictland Ford, which is where the modern name Pentland Firth comes from.

Last edited by Lianachan; 9th March 2006 at 17:02.
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Old 9th March 2006, 16:18
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Originally Posted by ANDY-J3
The exception above would be the Votadini because the name Gododdin -the Romano-Britons who inhabited the Lothians- was probably a corruption of Votadini,and they remained hostile to the Picts.
Indeed. It wasn't Pictish tribes I was listing, it was the tribes that had been reported in northern Britain (in the general area of modern Scotland) at a period of history that would be considered pre-Pictish. We're talking about the same basic people, who are separated only by time.
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Old 13th March 2006, 15:09
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Old 28th March 2006, 08:54
Tartan Paint Tartan Paint is offline
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The map showing the "Cruithin". I've seen people say that they were Scots but this is a Pict thread? Actually i have seen people call them both Picts and Scots, there seems to be some confusion on the matter. Dal Riata was the kingdom of the Scots for sure but the Picts Kingdom did at one time encompass parts of what we today call Scotland as well as Ulster, i believe. As did the Scots Kingdom? So could you clarify who the Cruithin are supposed to be? I assume they were Picts. Does this mean there was Picts and Scots there at the same time? How reliable are the sources we have about them? Also who are ther "Erainn"? If Ulaid gave "Ulster" it's name as i have seen suggested before, is "Erainn" where the name "Eire" comes from? And in turn, is that where we get the name "Ireland" from? Lots of questions i know but this is the basics here and i doubt if many people could answer my questions.
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