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Old 17th January 2006, 23:48
Mavericker Mavericker is offline
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Questoin about the UK's origin

Hello. Why is the UK called the UK if Scotland and Ireland joined forces to claim their independence from England?
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Old 18th January 2006, 08:45
Polwarth Polwarth is offline
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Scotland and Ireland did not join forces.

It's not complicated - the name says it all..... The United Kingdom is so called because it it a union of the Kingdoms of England, Scotland and Wales - the Northern Ireland situation is too complicated for a cartoon dog and cat to understand).
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Old 18th January 2006, 16:29
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Celyn Celyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwarth
.................. the Northern Ireland situation is too complicated for a cartoon dog and cat to understand).
And the Nobel Prize for Understatement goes to Polwarth!

Mind you, if the cartoon moggy and doggy happen to have superpowers, then perhaps they should have a go and sorting out the place. Oh heck, no, I have just remembered that phrase about "fighting like cat and dog"



OK here's a short version re. U.K. from: http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/britain.html

Quote:
The United Kingdom or Great Britain?

Great Britain is the term used for the island containing the contiguous nations¹ of England, Scotland and Wales. Great Britain is used to distinguish Britain from Brittania Minor, or Brittany, in France. The term "Great Britain" was officially used only after King James I (who was also James VI of Scotland) acceded to the throne of England and Wales in 1603, styling himself King of Great Britain, although legislative union between Scotland and England did not take place until 1707.

England, Scotland and Wales together with the province of Northern Ireland, form the country officially known as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" or simply the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom came into being in 1801 following the Irish Union, although the greater part of Ireland gained independence in 1921 to form the Irish Republic (or Eire). The majority of the people in Northern Ireland have wished to remain part of the U.K., although a minority wish unification with the Irish Republic.

The term "England" is sometimes erroneously used by both natives of England (the English) and those outside our country to refer to the United Kingdom. Natives of the other constituent nations of the U.K. find such usage offensive, so it is best avoided! Although there is no adjective for the "United Kingdom" the term "British" is acceptable, although has to be used with care and sensitivity in Northern Ireland, where one section of the community would be happy being so-described, whereas the other would most definitely regard themselves as "Irish".

The United Kingdom does not include the Isle of Man (which lies between Great Britain and the island of Ireland) and the Channel Islands (which lie off the North coast of France). These are direct dependencies of the British Crown, maintaining their own legislative, monetary and taxation systems. Each have their own parliaments and a Governor, appointed by the Crown.

The British Isles is used more loosely to describe the main island of Great Britain together with its associated islands (including the Isle of Man). It has no legal significance.

The Channel Islands, which include the independent States of Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney and Sark, are the only remaining components of the "Duchy of Normandy" which still belong to the British Crown.

The United Kingdom (including the Channel Islands, but without the Isle of Man) is a member of the European Union. The Isle of Man maintains free-trade agreements with the EU, but is not a member.
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Old 18th January 2006, 23:33
Mavericker Mavericker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwarth
Scotland and Ireland did not join forces.

It's not complicated - the name says it all..... The United Kingdom is so called because it it a union of the Kingdoms of England, Scotland and Wales - the Northern Ireland situation is too complicated for a cartoon dog and cat to understand).
I saw the movie Braveheart-there weren't any Irish soldiers in real life that helped William Wallace?
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Old 18th January 2006, 23:38
Mavericker Mavericker is offline
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Thank you Celyn-what's the story with Southern Ireland?
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Old 19th January 2006, 00:23
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For a while, it was part of the U.K.

It preferred not to be.

Now it is a separate and independent country.

It is a member of the European Union.

A quick bit of Googling would find you quite a lot on the subject of Ireland.

Quote:
From 1 January 1801 until 6 December 1922, Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The Great Potato Famine in 1845-1847, in which 1.5 million Irish died, was followed by enormous emigration. From 1874, but particularly from 1880 under Charles Stewart Parnell, the Irish Parliamentary Party moved to prominence with its attempts to achieve Home Rule, which would have given Ireland some autonomy without requiring it to leave the United Kingdom. It seemed possible in 1911 when the House of Lords lost their veto, and John Redmond secured the Third Home Rule Act 1914. The unionist movement, however, had been growing since 1886 among Irish Protestants, fearing that they would face discrimination, and lose economic and social privileges if Irish Catholics were to achieve real political power. Though Irish unionism existed throughout the whole of Ireland, in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century unionism was particularly strong in parts of Ulster, where industrialisation was more common in contrast to the more agrarian rest of the island. (Any tariff barriers would, it was feared, most heavily hit that region.) In addition, the Protestant population was more strongly located in Ulster, with unionist majorities existing in about four counties. Under the leadership of the Dublin-born Sir Edward Carson and the northerner Sir James Craig they became more militant. In 1914, to avoid rebellion in Ulster, the British Prime Minister Herbert Asquith, with agreement of the leadership of the Irish Parliamentary Party leadership, inserted a clause into the bill providing for home rule for 26 of the 32 counties, with an as of yet undecided new set of measures to be introduced for the area temporarily excluded. Though it received the Royal Assent, the Third Home Rule Act 1914's implementation was suspended until after the Great War. (The war at that stage was expected to be ended by 1915, not the four years it did ultimately last.) For the prior reasons Redmond and his Irish National Volunteers supported the Allied cause, and tens of thousands joined the British Army.

In January 1919, after the December 1918 general elections, 73 of Ireland's 106 MPs elected were Sinn Fein members who refused to take their seats in the British House of Commons. Instead they set up an extra-legal Irish parliament called Dáil Éireann. This Dáil in January 1919 issued a Unilateral Declaration of Independence and proclaimed an Irish Republic. This Declaration of Independence was mainly a restatement of the 1916 Proclamation with the additional provision that Ireland was no longer a part of the United Kingdom. Despite this, the new Irish Republic remained unrecognised internationally except by Lenin's Russian Republic. Nevertheless the Republic's Áireacht (ministry) sent a delegation under Ceann Comhairle Sean T. O'Kelly to the Paris Peace Conference, 1919. However it was not admitted. After the bitterly fought War of Independence, representatives of the British government and the Irish rebels negotiated the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 under which the British agreed to the establishment of an independent Irish State whereby the Irish Free State (in the Irish language Saorstát Éireann) with dominion status was created. The Dáil narrowly ratified the treaty.

The Treaty however was not entirely satisfactory to either side. It gave more concessions to the Irish than the British had intended to give but did not go far enough to satisfy Republican concerns. The new Irish Free State was in theory to cover the entire island, subject to the proviso that Northern Ireland (which had been created as a separate entity under the Government of Ireland Act 1920) could opt out and choose to remain part of the United Kingdom, which it duly did, to no-one's surprise. The remaining 26 counties of the island became the Irish Free State, a constitutional monarchy over which the British monarch reigned (from 1927 with the title King of Ireland). It had a Governor-General, a bicameral parliament, a cabinet called the "Executive Council" and a prime minister called the President of the Executive Council.

The Irish Civil War was the direct consequence of the creation of the Irish Free State. Anti-Treaty forces, led by Eamon de Valera, objected to the fact that acceptance of the Treaty abolished the Irish Republic of 1919 to which they had sworn loyalty, arguing in the face of public support for the settlement that the "people have no right to do wrong". They objected most to the fact that the state would remain part of the British Commonwealth and that TDs would have to swear an oath of fidelity to King George V and his successors. Pro-Treaty forces, led by Michael Collins, argued that the Treaty gave "not the ultimate freedom that all nations aspire to and develop, but the freedom to achieve it".

At the start of the war, the Irish Republican Army (IRA) split into two opposing camps: a pro-treaty IRA and an anti-treaty IRA. However, through the lack of an effective command structure in the anti-treaty IRA, and the pro-treaty IRA's defensive tactics throughout the war, Collins and his pro-treaty commanders were able to build up an army capable of overwhelming the anti-treaty forces on the battlefield. British supplies of artillery, aircraft, machine-guns and ammunition boosted pro-treaty forces, and the threat of a return of Crown forces to the Free State removed any doubts about the necessity of enforcing the treaty. The lack of public support for the anti-treaty Irregulars, and the determination of the government to overcome them, contributed significantly to their defeat.

The National Army suffered 800 fatalities and perhaps as many as 4000 people were killed altogether. As their forces retreated, the Irregulars showed a major talent for destruction and the economy of the Free State suffered a hard blow in the earliest days of its existence as a result.
Irish population through the 20th century.

On the 29 December 1937 a new constitution, the Constitution of Ireland, came into force. It replaced the Irish Free State by a new state called simply "Ireland". Though this state's constitutional structures provided for a President of Ireland instead of a king, it was not technically a republic. The principal key role possessed by a head of state, that of representing the state symbolically internationally remained vested in statute law in the King as an organ. On 1 April 1949 the Republic of Ireland Act declared a republic, with the functions previously given to the King given instead to the President of Ireland.

The Irish state had remained a member of the then British Commonwealth after independence until the declaration of a republic in April 1949. Under Commonwealth rules declaration of a republic automatically terminated membership of the association, consequently Ireland ceased to be a member.

The Republic of Ireland joined the United Nations in 1955 and the European Community (now the European Union) in 1973. Irish governments have sought the peaceful reunification of Ireland and have usually cooperated with the British government in the violent conflict with the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland known as the "Troubles". A peace settlement for Northern Ireland, the Belfast Agreement, was approved in 1998 in referenda north and south of the border, and is currently being implemented, albeit more slowly than many would like.
and the article goes on a bit more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland
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Old 19th January 2006, 16:46
SherbrookeJacobite SherbrookeJacobite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavericker
I saw the movie Braveheart-there weren't any Irish soldiers in real life that helped William Wallace?
Although it is an excellent movie - and one of my favourites - you would do well to not consider it as a source of historical information. It is loosely based on the life of William Wallace, but much contained in the movie is fiction (except the part where the Scottish forces 'mooned' the English - that really happened ).
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