1237

[Croi Sasanach]

Hello all,

1237 was the date that saw the English-Scottish border drawn up and into a treaty (minus a few edits; berwick and the scots dyke spring to mind), it was apparantly a defacto border well before this, so I'd like to ask if anyone knows why the border is where it is?

From my understanding much of the area of Northern England and Lowlands Scotland was ruled by Germans, so how did they come to divide this to the current border?

Discuss.

[mikeyBoab]

Dammit. Now I need to change my PIN number.

When did the Germans rule the border areas? I didn't know that but it doesn't surprise me - the Scots dialect has much in common with German.

[Croi Sasanach]

Originally Posted by mikeyBoab

Dammit. Now I need to change my PIN number.

When did the Germans rule the border areas? I didn't know that but it doesn't surprise me - the Scots dialect has much in common with German.

Too late mate, I'm in your Halifax account as we speak!!

Naa, as far as i know 'Germans' came in about 600AD as mercenaries and stayed, due to their aggressive nature they took resources and anything of value and gradually (actually more or less from the kick-off) became the ruling elite, the average bloke back then spoke a language similar to Welsh until about 800-900AD though, before English became the norm.

The weird thing though is that the kingdoms they drew up (the germans) had lands both north and south of the border, so it would have made sence for all of this area to have been in England or Scotland. I'd like to kmnow how it went halfy-half.

[Lianachan]

Are you talking about Saxons? Or Angles? Or both? "Germans" didn't exist then.

[Croi Sasanach]

Both. Ofcourse there was no Germany back then, as there was no England or Scotland... but you knew what i meant... however would you not refer to those fowk as English and Scottish ?

[Lianachan]

Originally Posted by Croi Sasanach

Both. Ofcourse there was no Germany back then, as there was no England or Scotland... but you knew what i meant... however would you not refer to those fowk as English and Scottish ?

Nope, of course I wouldn't - the terms are meaningless. I would (and do) always refer to the specific group in question.

[Croi Sasanach]

Originally Posted by Lianachan

Nope, of course I wouldn't - the terms are meaningless. I would (and do) always refer to the specific group in question.

Aye ok, you knew what i meant though mate.

Anyway, the question in hand - can you contribute to answering that ?