Clans at Bannockburn?

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Thank you all for the information. I was specifically interested in my Clan - and what evidence there was for their involvement, other than Clan tradition. They were allied with (vassels of) the Lord of the Isles, at that time, so undoubtedly they were there as part of Angus Og MacDonald's contingent.

[Skyelander]

Originally posted by SherbrookeJacobite

Thanks SR - I am specifically interested in the makeup of those troops. Is there any evidence showing Clan participation - or is it just oral history and Clan lore that has them as participants?

Hi SherbrookeJacobite,

I'm surprised you didn't ask me on the other forums, since this was recently posted by me in my history of the battle.

The clans said to have been at Bannockburn, or one source of this information, comes from (among others) author Tim Newark and also from the book "Scottish Highlanders" by MacKinnon. I'll be glad to give you the details on the other forum if you ask.

Clearly, every account of who was actually there will vary slightly depending on your references and sources. I'm pretty confident the list I posted (on the other forum, sorry guys) is a credible listing, with the reminder that credible often depends on whom you read on such old accounts.

Skye

[Skyelander]

Originally posted by TheVoyageur
According to historians C. Rothero and Tim Newark, the following clans are considered represented at Bannockburn and led there by their chiefs:

Cameron,
Campbell,
Chisholm,
Fraser,
Gordon,
Grant,
Gunn,
MacKay,
MacIntosh,
MacPherson,
Macquarrie,
Maclean,
MacLeod,
MacDonald,
MacFarlane,
MacGregor,
MacKenzie,
Menzies,
Munro,
Robertson,
Ross,
Sinclair
Sutherland.

Some in Clan Gunn of NA don't agree, but one has to remember that this battle was coming for over 6 months, probably a year. Everyone in Scotland knew the English were coming to reclaim Stirling Castle, and that Bruce would have to face Edward's powerful English armies.

It is completely in character for the Highlanders, in such a situation, to voluntarliy come down to Falkirk or Stirling to participate in the upcoming battle.

In fact it is known that some Highlanders were turned away because Bruce didn't have enough provisions to feed them all.

Since Mr. Newark, a respected historian and writer of many books, includes all these clans, I do so as well with honest conviction.

Clan Gunn was represented, if not by chiefly order, than certainly by individual members of the clan.

Now keep in mind this list of clans represents only the confirmable Highland clans and there were undoubtedly more.

Other Lowland families were also long time Bruce supporters such as

Keith,
Douglas,
Boyd,
Burnett and others.

In no way is this a complete and final list of clans that took part in the actual battle of Bannockburn, but these are the I will confirm.

Some notable clan exclusions are:

Cumming (Comyn), MacDougall, MacDowell, and MacNab who all fought for the English, and would suffer for it later.

Source: http://members.aol.com/skyelander/bruce1.html

This is the exact same listing I posted, in fact, the wording is mine and comes directly from my web site! Voyager, if you are going to quote my site, please at least give credit to the author - most of this material is copyrighted to me! Nontheless, I'm glad it served to help solved the query and that a link was supplied.

http://members.aol.com/skyelander/bruce1.html

Cheers,
R Gunn, MA
Editor, ScotWeb history

[OurScotland]

I think you will see that the Voyageur did in fact give credit to your site -

Originally posted by TheVoyageur

Source: http://members.aol.com/skyelander/bruce1.html

[Scottish_Republican]

The website does make one big mistake. In 1314, it was a bit of an anachronism to talk of "Gaelic speaking Highlanders and English speaking Lowlanders", as many of the Lowlanders spoke Gaidhlig too, and the Highland and Lowland division wasn't talked of really until well over a hundred years later.

[ANDY-J2]

I think the piece is well written and very informative but one of the few points I would question was whether there is any reliable evidence to support the idea that 30 000 English died.That would make it the bloodiest battle ever to take place on British soil and I don't believe the numbers in the English army at Bannockburn would have been near 30 000.

[Skyelander]

Originally posted by ANDY-J2
I think the piece is well written and very informative but one of the few points I would question was whether there is any reliable evidence to support the idea that 30 000 English died.That would make it the bloodiest battle ever to take place on British soil and I don't believe the numbers in the English army at Bannockburn would have been near 30 000.

Yes, a link was given but my only reason for mentioning it is that it wasn't supposed to be copied and placed anywhere without my permission and consent, which I didn't give. Now, if he had asked first...

SR - I do not agree with you. I don't believe that is in error at all. The Lowlands of Scotland from whence the kings ruled, started speaking middle (or earlier) forms of English around 1100, actually during Malcolm Canmore's reign when the Scottish court became Anglicised due the the influence of Queen Margaret. Malcolm, who'd been helped to get his throne by the English, was more than willing to change the offical language of Scotland (Lowlands) to English starting then. By the time of Bannockburn, some 200+ years later, almost all of the Lowlands spoke some form of English as the primary tongue. Now, this isn't to suggest that some elements of Scottish Gaelic or regions of Gaelic-speakers didn't hold out in the Lowlands, but English and even French (amongst the nobility) were the common langauges in Lowland Scotland, with Latin being the language of the Church.

Andy - I've read accounts of the battle that range from 17,000 - 45,000!. I took a middle (not exact) of the road and used the number most commonly given. I'd agree that numbers of casulties are often greatly exaggerated in Dark Age, Ancient and even medieval warfare. Cassell's "Britsh Battles of Land and Sea" was one of the sources that mentioned 30,000. It does seem a bit steep.

Many thanks!

Robert aka Skyelander