Bruce and Ulster

[Laeg]

Talisker-Himself and Skyelander, Thanks for the info and the sites.

Re the book/s set in the Borders it was mentioned on the Nigel Tranter website you gave me. They could already be published as I don't know when that sites dated from. It could be the books you mention.

It is on the section of the site entitled---'A Brief Tranter Biography'

''he told us he had four more books already written,based on the Earls of Dunbar and March and the Borders---these are soon to be published.'' So they could well be the ones you refer to.

[Laeg]

Iam on the third of Nigel Tranter's books about 'The Bruce'
I never realized that he had been to Ulster[except Rathlin Island] According to the book he stepped ashore at Carrickfergus on Ist December 1316. He was there to help his brother Edward [I knew about him being King of Ireland]
who was later slain.

[Somarlidh]

In January 1317 Bruce sailed from Loch Ryan to Larne and then travelled to Carrickfergus and joined Edward Bruce. The reason for Robert Bruces' visit was to strengthen his brothers position. An ancient custom in Ireland was that the High King (of Ireland) should make a progress through the five provinces of Ulster,Meath, Leinster, Munster and Connaught. Robert joined Edward on this progress with his army with the intention of crushing any Anglo-Irish opposition, and to unify the Gaelic Irish in support of King Edward.

If you want the facts about Bruce don't read Tranter, excellent fiction, but none the less fiction. Try Robert the Bruce by Caroline Bingham, (1998); Constable and Company Ltd, London W6 9ER, An excellent biograghy, or Robert Bruce and the community of the realm of Scotland by G.W.S Barrow (1965);Eyre & Spottiswoode, London, a classic!

[Laeg]

Thanks for the info Somarlidh. Will try the library first.
Cheers, Laeg.

[Raingeanach]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Laeg

What about the spider ha, is that true?


Edward Cowan, a history prof. at Glasgow University, suggests that the first appearance of the "Bruce and the spider" legend (certainly in print) was in Sir Walter Scott`s "Tales of a Grandfather" (1828).

[Laeg]

[quote]Originally posted by Raingeanach

[i]Originally posted by Laeg

What about the spider ha, is that true?


Edward Cowan, a history prof. at Glasgow University, suggests that the first appearance of the "Bruce and the spider" legend (certainly in print) was in Sir Walter Scott`s "Tales of a Grandfather" (1828).

Thanks for that Raingeanach. I'm nearly finished the third of Nigel Tranter's trilogy on Bruce. Abbot de Linton[in the book] has just shown the letter he has written[the Declaration of Abroath]for delivery to the pope, to Bruce and some other nobles. ''Abbot Bernard,'' Elizabeth said gently. ''You make me wish that I was born a Scot,I vow!''

I thought at first Bruce's wife was born in Ulster [Lady Ulster]then I found on the web where it said she had been born in Dunfirmline. Now I'm wondering was she born in Ulster after all.

[Husky]

Originally posted by Scottish_Republican

Gaelic

Bruce, in a letter to the Irish chiefs, refering to the Irish and Scots collectively as "nostra nacio" (our nation):

“Whereas we and you and our people and your people, free since ancient times, share the same national ancestry and are urged to come together more eagerly and joyfully in friendship by a common language and by common custom, we have sent you our beloved kinsman, the bearers of this letter, to negotiate with you in our name about permanently strengthening and maintaining inviolate the special friendship between us and you, so that with God’s will our nation (nostra nacio) may be able to recover her ancient liberty.”

In other places, Bruce calls Scotland "Scotia Minora" and Ireland "Scotia Maiora." In Ulster, they shared his views. The Annals of Ulster write, s.a. 1314 :

"Roibeat a Briuis, ri Alban, do thecht a n-Erinn maille re galloglachaibh imdhaibh i furtacht Edubaird, a brathar fein, do dhichur Gall a h-Erinn."

“Robert Bruce, king of Alba, came to Ireland along with many
gallowglasses in aid of Edward, his brother, to expel the Foreigners from Ireland.”

Donal O'Neill, told Pope John XXII that he had supported the Bruces because “the Kings of Lesser Scotia all trace their blood to our Greater Scotia and retain to some degree our language and customs.”

The idea that the common language was English is just absurd. There's no good evidence Bruce even spoke the language, and given he was a Gaelic Mormaer of Gaelic and French origin, there's little reason to presume he did. Donal O'Neill probably didn't speak English either.

Originally posted by Somarlidh
An excellent biograghy, or Robert Bruce and the community of the realm of Scotland by G.W.S Barrow (1965);Eyre & Spottiswoode, London, a classic! [/b]

I would hardly call it a "biography of Robert Bruce." It's more of a highly digressive - often turgid - skewed discursive sketch of his "community of the realm" which is more likely than not to bore the average reader senseless.