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Bruce and Ulster

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 4th March 2005, 12:47
ANDY-J2 ANDY-J2 is offline
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Re: Re: Bruce and Ulster

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Originally posted by Laeg
[Wallace was in it too,it was Bruce who knighted him[according to this book]. Is this true?

I don't think Bruce would have Knighted Wallace who was fighting to put John Baliol back on the Scottish throne.Wallace was therefore a hindrance to Bruce's ambitions.
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Old 4th March 2005, 16:51
Laeg Laeg is offline
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This guy Tranter must be a 'do-do' Another part

''Dewar of the Coigreach said something less fierce in gaelic this time.
Bruce replies ''Iam sorry friend,'' he said,when there was a pause. ''I do not know what you say.''

The other looked him up and down disapprovingly,then shrugged the bent tartan-draped shoulders,''you are Robert son of Mariot,daughter of Niall,son of Duncan,son of Gilbert, son of Fergus,son of Fergus?'' he demanded,and added,''Ard Righ,''almost grudgingly.

Bruce at least knew the last two words, which meant High King. He nodded. ''I-Iam he''

So according to Mr Tranter, Bruce couldn't speak gaelic and
it looks like Bruce didn't knight Wallace. This book must be a load of codswallop,like Braveheart is supposed to be.

Don't know whether to bother with the other two in the trilogy. I have them ordered from the library, so I'll see what happens. Thanks for putting me right.
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Old 4th March 2005, 17:20
Talisker-Himself Talisker-Himself is offline
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Nigel Tranter's books are based on Historical Fact and the books are fiction, but are his "version" of what happened according to his research on the subject.

http://cunninghamh.tripod.com/2001/index.htm



[Edited by Talisker-Himself on 4th March 2005 at 18:49]
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Old 4th March 2005, 18:30
SherbrookeJacobite
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Laeg,

Have a look at this website.

http://www.waichung.demon.co.uk/william/rebel.htm

It was about this time that William Wallace was knighted, possibly by the 2nd Earl of Carrick, Robert Bruce (the future King of Scotland)....

Nigel Tranter may not have been so far off. The reason Wallace supported John Baliol was that he was the crowned King of Scots. The Bruce himself, at one point, supported Baliol. Wallace was not fighting to ensure that Baliol was put on the throne (as the Comyns were), he was fighting against English occupation and tyrany.

I have read a number of Tranter's books and found them very entertaining and enjoyable - I wouldn't get too hung up on small historical inaccuracies, and I wouldn't consider Tranter as a main source of historical information. Rather, reading his books puts a human spin on the history.
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Old 5th March 2005, 12:06
Laeg Laeg is offline
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TaliskerHimself,SherbrookeJacobite. Thanks for the website links. WhatI have read so far is very informative. I had to take 'The Steps To The Empty Throne'
back as someone was wanting it out. But one of the two books I still haVE out is 'The Courtesan'another Nigel Tranter one. I wasn't gone to bother with it,but will now give it a go.

Is the one mentioned on the site,set in the Borders 'The Earls of Dunbar and March' published yet?

Help much appreciated. thanks Laeg.

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Old 10th March 2005, 17:04
Talisker-Himself Talisker-Himself is offline
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Sorry for taking so long in replying.... what is the title of the book? I dont seem to recognise 'The Earls of Dunbar and March' , unless it is 'The Marchman' or 'Warden of the Queen's March' which are already published.

The Courtesan, if I am not mistaken is one of a trilogy of books 'Master of Grey'. Lord and Master, The Courtesan followed by Past Master. So you may want to read 'Lord and Master' first.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2005, 05:22
Skyelander Skyelander is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SherbrookeJacobite
Laeg,

Have a look at this website.

http://www.waichung.demon.co.uk/william/rebel.htm

It was about this time that William Wallace was knighted, possibly by the 2nd Earl of Carrick, Robert Bruce (the future King of Scotland)....

Nigel Tranter may not have been so far off. The reason Wallace supported John Baliol was that he was the crowned King of Scots. The Bruce himself, at one point, supported Baliol. Wallace was not fighting to ensure that Baliol was put on the throne (as the Comyns were), he was fighting against English occupation and tyrany.

I have read a number of Tranter's books and found them very entertaining and enjoyable - I wouldn't get too hung up on small historical inaccuracies, and I wouldn't consider Tranter as a main source of historical information. Rather, reading his books puts a human spin on the history.
I agree with SherbrookJacobite. As someone else clearly stated, Tranter's works are Historical fiction, the key word here being fiction. However, as far as historical fiction goes, he does the genre a great degree of service and honour. He researches his battles well before he writes about them and although the dialog is somewhat suspicious (to say the least), it is entertaining - and I think that is the point. If you want the real history, please buy a history book!

I also agree the notion that it could have been Bruce who knighted Wallace, as it has been mentioned in several major works from the period, and is not out of the realm of possibility, although, admittedly, speculative.

Skye
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