Gaelic in Scottish History and Culture

[hilandr]

{smile) I certainly understand the shared history. We Yanks also have a shared history with the U.K., though a bit more turbulent than yours. We might well still be a "Commonwealth" nation ourselves if not for the rather strange behavior of a certain King GeorgeIII. Contrary to how history may be taught elsewhere,.."independence" was not the original plan of the American colonies. People as diverse as Franklin, Jefferson, and Adams tried as hard as they could to keep the "colonies" within the "Family".>>>I do know for a fact that I had ancestors who were loyalists and those who were "patriots"...(just as I had ancestors who fought on both sides in the Civil War). Many in this country, or, I am sure, in Britain, do not think of the American "Revolution" (or whatever it is called there) as a "civil war",..but that is really what it was. And civil wars are always the saddest.>> At any rate, I am always as disappointed with "Brit bashing" in this country as I am with "Yank bashing". You would think enough water had passed under the bridge by now.

[Edited by hilandr on 10th December 2004 at 07:00]

[SherbrookeJacobite]

I was aware of the fact that Independence was not the goal of all of your founding fathers. I have been a big fan of Benjamin Franklin for years (I still read "Poor Richards Almanac" from time to time). I think he was a brilliant man - and his personal life suffered greatly because of his committment to his fellow colonists/countrymen. Likewise Thomas Jefferson, whose views on the role of government are relevant to this day.

There were many "Loyalists" and "Patriots" who jumped from one side to the other, sometimes out of necessity, sometimes because of shift in the balance of power in their area. There were atrocities on both sides. Many on the American side would have preferred remaining with Britain, and there were a number in what is now Canada that would have liked to join the 13 Colonies to the south. I think that sentiment had largely faded by 1812, when Canada was invaded for the only time.

There is very little "Yank bashing" in the part of Canada where I live - there is a great deal of support for the US, despite some recent trade problems with cattle and softwood lumber.

[PRgirl]

Sherbrooke,
I am tired of people accusing others of bashing some nationality whether British or yank or whatever when all one does is point out the wrongdoings in government policy and political shortcomings.

When are people going to have the maturity to realize that when the gov't screws up royally they need to stop making excuses and call an unjust move unjust and then admit the mistake and do something about it? What bothers me is when people get defensive. America and the USA is perfect and should not be criticized ever for its mistaken policies? That is not correct. America makes some bad mistakes. Just as the UK does. And if others criticize those bad policies it is not done to attack and put down the image of the Yankee people or whoever thinks they are Yanks, but to stop living in denial of bad gov't policy and living in denial to what it is being done that is damaging and counterproductive and to do something to change it.

I separate gov'ts from the people of a nation. And I find it discouraging when citizens of a nation identify so strongly with their gov't that they fail to recognize that their supposed representative gov't is doing all kinds of horrific things in the name of the people (and the people if they were informed would be quite displeased with the vast majority of the screwed up policy) unfortunately IGNORANCE about it all is the culprit. And it is rampant in many gov'ts and peoples all over the world. But the most wealthy nations tend to have the most blind citizens to gov't policy. Maybe that is due to the old dicho "barriga llena corazon contento" syndrome. Translation, "In full stomachs hearts are content". Good Evening Sherbrooke and others.

[scotbot]

Originally posted by ANDY-J2
I don't believe there is any prospect that we will ever lose our sense of seperateness from England-we are in no danger therefore of becoming more and more English.

have you been in Edinburgh recently, Andy, you can't walk down Princes Street without every other accent being English, and I don't just think they belong to folks up for a stag or hen party weekend. indeed at the time of the 2001 census it was revealed that 12% of Edinburgh's population was English. given company and civil service relocations, and the fact that far more English students are given entry to a Scottish university than Scottish ones, begs the question if there is some subtle form of institutional colonialism taking place.

Originally posted by ANDY-J2
I think that in the near future an increasing number of Scots will come to realise that independence is the right route for our country to take.

this will be harder to effect if there are less indigenous Scots in the electorate. slowly but surely anglicising the electorate has the effect that the population as a whole becomes more English since the indegnous population becomes displaced. Edinburgh University is now essentially an English university - it's only Scottish by accident of geography.

now, is it just me, or does all this imply problems further up the road, when Scotland tries to vote independence and a sizeable English populace refuses to acknowledge the will of the Scots of Scotland? i never subscribed to the balkanisation theory of Scottish seccession before, but given this gradual colonialisation I'm beginning to think there could be problems. do you think that perhaps the British Establishment (British because it also include Scots, perhaps including pro-Union Edinburgh City Councillors and Edinburgh University academes) have realised the best way to offset Scotland's independence movement is to head them off at the pass so-to-speak, ie gradually change the population demograhic before it's too late.

*just some thoughts :: discuss*

btw: this has always been why Gaelic has been suppressed - to de-Scottishise Scotland. from the time of the Norman ascendancy in court and the establishment of lowland burghs when most Scots outside of the Lothians spoke Gaelic, to the reformation when Gallowegians were forbidden to speak "Erishe" lest they be seen to be barbarian papists, to post-Jacobite highlands, Gaelic has been denigrated for one purpose and one purpose only - to not make us less Scottish. we are not allowed to have our own native language, because that might strengthen our national identity and that's the last thing a colonial power wants when it's trying to emasculate that nation politically. hence the feet dragging over the Gaelic Language bill and that it doesn't give Gaelic the same status in Scotland as Welsh is in Wales.

anyway, that's all for now.

tioraidh an drasda

[Edited by scotbot on 11th December 2004 at 13:09]